<p>Inconspicuous.s.n., I don’t believe morals were derived by religion because religions give incentives for being moral, such as not going to hell or getting 72 lays when you die, and being bribed or coerced into morality is not true morality, and as such, religion didn’t create morality, it enforced it, and they couldn’t enforce something that didn’t exist yet. Morality is the ideals by which humans should and shouldn’t interact. This ideals evolved over time as civilization changed and new forms of interaction between humans took place, such as the evolution from individual, to tribe, to village, to city, to country.</p>
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<p>I think what inconspicuous meant that even those who aren’t religious today may have been affected by the Bible’s and religion’s morals. He’s not saying that everyone is religious and therefore moral; He’s saying nearly everyone (in our culture), because of the way society works, has been affected by religion to produce an overall sense of morality.</p>
<p>That being said, I too disagree. The Bible and religious morals were not a cause of morality in humanity, but rather a reflection of it. I believe that people inherently have empathy and kindness, to varying degrees, when they are born. Obviously there is a spectrum of morality, differing aspects of morality, and differing interpretations of morality, but people are born with some sense of morality. As they grow older, people are affected to produce different/stronger/weaker/etc. morals. However, I believe religion stems from this inherent morality more than causes it.</p>
<p>It takes me so long to type, three other people answered the question. (:</p>
<p>St.Hudson, your proposition that religion functions as reinforcement/punishment for good/bad behaviors is interesting. Maybe religion was entirely invented by a few guys who got together and said “Hey look! I’ve got a plan to fool people into being nice to each other and obeying the law!” Okay, that isn’t really a fair interpretation of religion, but some aspects of religious codes just seem too convenient and reflective of existing public law to be later passed off and attributed to God.</p>
<p>“Without religion, the only real incentive to make moral decisions is personal conscious and the law.” Couldn’t you argue that law itself is a codification of an innate sense of morality? There’s no real justification for why hurting other people by breaking the law is wrong except that our conscience tells us so.</p>
<p>wink: ive heard that argument before, i find it very oversimplified. religious texts were written in a different time when such “plans” may have been more necessary than they are now. God could have been the source none the less. and it also depends on how people choose to interpret it (particularly the bible). whether literally or as something of a cautious story.</p>
<p>Earlmadith: Well, there is the justification that by hurting others, you restrict their rights. It could be less conscience than principle. (Assuming you believe there’s a difference…)</p>
<p>Laws can be based on morality, or they can be based on a mutual social contract to ensure survival of the race. If there was no law, everyone would kill each other. Because we’re not allowed to (and are faced with jail time if we do), we create safety for others and expect to be safe ourselves, a little bit different from morality. Of course, like I said, laws could very well be based on morality.</p>
<p>disney: what if you dont believe in others’ rights but only your own.</p>
<p>Yes, but why is it wrong? Animals restrict other animals right to live by eating them. Is it wrong for a wolf to eat a deer on principle? Ask a wolf. Is it wrong for one human to needlessly kill another? Survey says: yes. That’s our innate morality, unique to humans.</p>
<p>Weird, i think we’ve found a subject that everyone agrees on, that’s if I’m reading all your posts correctly. Is anyone here NOT an atheist?</p>
<p>I’m kinda Catholic. (Not based on their positions on most political stuff. I just know that they do a lot of good work in the world and it mostly outweighs the poison they feed to the feebleminded.)</p>
<p>im a baptist. though i do disagree with a lot that my church backs up. i listen, and make my own decisions off that. i believe that God is my savior not the verbatem words of my pastor.</p>
<p>panicpower: I’m not attacking religion, being a slightly religious person myself (I don’t believe in the particular details, just the basic moral concepts). I’ve never read the Bible, but I doubt it was a document meant to be taken as a word-for-word literal account, especially considering many of the books were written several centuries after the events took place. Belief systems like Confucianism developed mainly due to a necessary means to further enforce existing codes of social conduct and morality. There is no reason why other belief systems could not have developed for similar reasons.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to be offensive in any way, and I apologize if I am.</p>
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<p>I should clarify: Doesn’t rationalization and the process of thought as well as morality make us human?</p>
<p>A philosopher could argue that one should not restrict other’s rights on a matter of logic: That way, the largest amount of people would receive the largest amount of rights. As humans, we recognize the concept of self and the concept of others HAVING a self. Another could argue it in the sense of morality, but that’s not how I intended that statement.</p>
<p>Yeah. I have a feeling that God and religion is like a placebo. It might be real, might not, but it works pretty well if you believe in it.</p>
<p>But how strict are you to your beliefs? Were you born into a family that taught you this religion or have you chosen this religion for yourself? Is this too touchy a subject to discuss?</p>
<p>It’s hard to keep track of the multiple conversations running here and who is responding to whom…I love the craziness!</p>
<p>I should probably mention I’m atheist, and by the way, I think it’s ridiculous that I should have to have a name for NOT thinking something is true.</p>
<p>wink: I know, so many responses!</p>