Tennessee GOP stoops to attacking and distorting Michelle Obama

Parent Cafe
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<p>Spideygirl, I’m sorry, but I am really quite flabbergasted that you are apaprently unaware that the concept that “Jews control the media” (as opposed to owning and/or publishing some number, but not by any means a substantial percentage, of media outlets in this country) is one of the most common anti-Semitic slanders there is. </p>

<p>First, it’s untrue and always has been. Other than the New York Times, what precisely are you talking about? Is Rupert Murdoch Jewish? Who “controls” more media, Rupert Murdoch or the Sulzburger family? Is the Los Angeles Times owned by Jews? Or, instead, by the Chicago Tribune? Was the Chandler family that used to own the LA Times Jewish? Do you think the Chicago Tribune has ever been known as a “Jewish paper”? Speaking of famous newspaper families, was William Randolph Hearst a Jew? Do you think the Washington Post is controlled by Jews? Are General Electric and Vivendi, which own NBC, “Jewish companies”? How about the Walt Disney Company, which owns ABC? How about Time Warner? Do you honestly believe that Sumner Redstone, who indirectly owns a controlling interest in CBS through a couple of corporate layers, decides what news gets broadcast on CBS? Etc., etc.</p>

<p>So, I don’t care what you were told in college; you should check your facts before you make such broad factual assertions. <em>Especially</em> when they happen to coincide so unfortunately with tired anti-Semitic cliches. </p>

<p>I do accept, of course, that you had no ill intent, and were repeating this canard from ignorance. But if you were setting out to have people discount what you say, you couldn’t have done a better job. It would help if you weren’t refusing, with such defensiveness, to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, you were engaging in stereotyping, even if unintentionally. I don’t think anyone was trying to accuse you of being anti-Semitic. I’m certainly not.</p>

<p>Second, “control” is a loaded word, because (regardless of its legal meaning) it is, and always has been, used to imply that when Jewish people <em>do</em> own a media outlet, they slant the news to further Jewish interests. I suppose you think that all those hundreds of mysterious Jewish-controlled newspapers and broadcast companies out there are deliberately hiding from us what a wonderful President we have, and what a marvelous success the war in Iraq has been? </p>

<p>The fact is, those media outlets out there that I <em>do</em> believe are biased against Israel tend to be British – the Guardian, the BBC, etc. None of them, so far as I am aware, owned by Jews!</p>

<p>Yes, you’re free to say what you like. But others are equally free to tell you that they think it’s remarkably presumptuous of you to be lecturing Jewish people – who, perhaps, have a somwhat better grasp of Jewish history, and the history of Israel, than you do? – on what positions they should or shouldn’t be taking, or on what is or isn’t good for Israel. I suppose that the many, many people in Israel who believe that it’s bad for Israel (and “the Jews”) to be in a perpetual state of war, that it’s bad for Israel to keep territories that will inevitably result in Jewish people being a demographic minority in Israel (hardly a consummation devoutly to be wished in a Jewish state), that the establishment of a Palestinian state is a goal to work towards (as the Israeli government itself believes!), or that it was an enormous mistake for the United States to begin a war that has seriously destablized the entire region, are traitors? </p>

<p>Finally, a helpful suggestion: it is decidedly not a good idea to refer to Israel as the “fatherland” of the Jewish people. In my entire life, I have never heard an Israeli, or a Jewish person anywhere, referring to Israel that way. I suppose you are also unaware that the word “fatherland” is inextricably associated in many people’s minds with Germany? (Sort of like “motherland” is associated with Russia?) And, therefore, that referring to Israel as a “fatherland” has a distinctly unpleasant sound to many Jewish people? Including me? (Speaking of insensitivity.)</p>

<p>Donna</p>

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<p>DonnaL: “Spideygirl, I’m sorry, but I am really quite flabbergasted that you are apaprently unaware that the concept that “Jews control the media” (as opposed to owning and/or publishing some number, but not by any means a substantial percentage, of media outlets in this country) is one of the most common anti-Semitic slanders there is.”</p>

<p>I never commented on whether or not there is a slur related to Jews controlling the media. This was a notion brought up by another post in order to slam my pro-Israel position by injecting a smoke screen into the debate. We went from bringing up an unrelated matter which the poster clearly knew was unwarranted, to then adding the falsehood that I in some way deny that the unrelated matter even exists. </p>

<p>I am quite sure that there are those who use any number of slurs against all sorts of people on this planet. That was not the topic of my discussion, nor is it now. </p>

<p>My point is very clear if you look back to my posts on this thread, so I’ll not repeat it. I am not going to lend credibility to what I consider to be a huge pile of baloney by defending myself against it further.</p>

<p>But for you, DonnaL, I’ll make the simple point once again: There certainly are Jewish people who are in controlling media positions which could be used to help Israel, and in my opinion they have chosen to help undermine political efforts which could be advantageous to that nation (blindsided by American liberal politics). </p>

<p>This opinion has nothing to do with the slur that Hanna brought into this discussion.</p>

<p>Why should I even post? My opinions can be made up for me. Let me get this straight. I have gone from a pro-Israeli supporter to someone who denies that there is discrimination against the Jews. This is becasue my support for Israel dared come from the conservative direction. Next I will be a Holocaust denier. Wow - liberals really will go to any extent to win an argument. </p>

<p>A Jewish person who will slam a pro-Israel position just to advance a liberal American agenda. This is why I worry about the fate of Israel as far as support from this country goes. If Israel can’t even count on American Jews for consistent support, to where can it turn?!</p>

<p>I actually think the real issue here, beyond the smoke screen, is COMPLACENCY.</p>

<p>And by the way, I certainly do have the right, along with any other American, to give my opinion about what is or isn’t good for Israel. Coincidentally, I happen to align closely with the nation of Israel on that topic, but no matter. American politics as far as Israel or any other nation goes is a matter of concern for any citizen.</p>

<p>I am not Jewish, and I like to think of Israel being a fatherland for all Jews around the world. It makes me happy that American blood was shed for that to finally be a reality. If someone chooses to apply their liberal political aggression to falsifying an insult over that, then so be it. I think in the real world we are all very able to see a person’s intentions if we choose to do so (particularly when a record of their opinions is a few clicks away right here on CC).</p>

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<p>DonnaL:</p>

<p>The last thing I will do is start cowering when I come up against liberal left bully tactics. I actually think it is unAmerican to start accusing a person of being a bigot when clearly they are not, just to shut down a position with which one disagrees (quite a popular thing for many on the left to do). I value free speech too much to not call this as I see it. </p>

<p>I don’t drink the liberal agenda Kool-Aid, and while I find phony political correctness and falsification of insult to be mildly amusing, I won’t dignify it with the sensitivity it does not deserve.</p>

<p>The word “fatherland” (or “motherland”, or in some instances “old country”) is something I would and do use to apply to any nation on this planet for any group who came from there. My immigrant grandparents did the same (and no, they were not from Germany or Russia). To have a panic reaction to that truly is nuts (or downright insincere).</p>

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<p>Not Jewish here so forgive me for chiming in, but a) yes, referring to “Jewish owned media” is one of the most known far right-wing anti-Semitic conspiracy theories as far as I know, and b) I can see how “fatherland” is a rather insensitive term in this context. I was astonished that Bush used the term “homeland” security after 9/11–even that term had some kind of vague inference to Nazi Germany to me. I still don’t like it.</p>

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<p>But what about the conservative agenda Kool-Aid? There seems to be a fair number of people out there a-sippin’ away on that!</p>

346

<p>HIndoo: “But what about the conservative agenda Kool-Aid? There seems to be a fair number of people out there a-sippin’ away on that”</p>

<p>Well, I may have taken a few sips over the years. But I really do try not to. I used to be a Republican, but now I am an independent. And I’ve switched to Diet Coke.</p>

<p>ilsabelter: I like the term homeland security. This IS our homeland. Good grief - if we were to remove every word from our lexicon which had any negative association whatsoever for the millions of Americans who arrived from all over this planet (most of whom suffered in one way or another in their former home), we’d have to be MUTE.</p>

<p>DonnaL: “Finally, a helpful suggestion: it is decidedly not a good idea to refer to Israel as the “fatherland” of the Jewish people. In my entire life, I have never heard an Israeli, or a Jewish person anywhere, referring to Israel that way. I suppose you are also unaware that the word “fatherland” is inextricably associated in many people’s minds with Germany? (Sort of like “motherland” is associated with Russia?) And, therefore, that referring to Israel as a “fatherland” has a distinctly unpleasant sound to many Jewish people? Including me? (Speaking of insensitivity.)”</p>

<p>Here is the first hit when I googled “Israel fatherland”:</p>

<p>“The Romanian language
is my homeland”
An interview with Shaul Carmel, Israeli poet
who uses the Romanian language.</p>

<p>A.S. You are a poet deeply rooted in your Romanianism although you have been living in Israel for many years now. You have proved untiringly that you are just as solid a master of the Romanian language as a devoted citizen of Israel. Fatherland and Motherland resound together in you. And yet what is the difference between your Romanian and your Israeli feelings?"</p>

<p>Here is the link:
<a href=“http://www.alpas.net/uli/Shaul/ShaulCarmelEng.htm[/url]”>http://www.alpas.net/uli/Shaul/ShaulCarmelEng.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>FATHERLAND</p>

<p>MOTHERLAND</p>

<p>HOMELAND</p>

<p>Wow - it really is true that there is a lot of phony baloney going on around here. If those words are OK for a respected Israeli poet, I guess it is OK for me to ignore the whining of American liberals.</p>

<p>Game Over.</p>

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<p>Spidey–I’m a diet Pepsi girl myself.</p>

348

<p>Hey, it’s like magic!</p>

349

<p>I can’t resist: </p>

<p>DonnaL…</p>

<p>You can buy this recording on Amazon:</p>

<p>“My Fatherland”</p>

<p>Israel Philharmonic Orchestra
with Zubin Mehta</p>

<p>If you want to visit Israel and check out for yourself what is acceptable, "G.U.Y tours is an established Israeli company specializing in guiding and handling tours for individuals, businessman, families, special interest small groups and cruise passengers…</p>

<p>Whether your desire
to visit the holy land is
motivated by religious fillings
or the passion to explore your
fatherland - Israel, G.U.Y Tours
is your best partner to
accomplish it."</p>

<p>[Guy</a> Tours: Travel Israel with Private tour guide, services & hotels](<a href=“שגיאה”>http://www.guytours.com/)</p>

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<p>Someone on this thread (I won’t say who) sent me a private message and I can’t reply b/c your box is full (you need to delete some stuff)</p>

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<p>Hey, anyone can get lucky (since I highly doubt you looked this up before using the term), and we all make mistakes – perhaps those of us who are German Jews by origin, and are children of survivors, and lost large numbers of close family members to the Holocaust at the hands of our own then-“vaterland,” are particularly sensitive to that particular word choice. Which, perhaps, is why I’ve never heard anyone in my family use it.</p>

<p>My feelings on this have nothing to do with “American liberals,” or with being one. That’s just so silly.</p>

<p>By the way, it’s interesting that in translating the line of Hatikvah, the Israeli national anthem, that reads “Lashuv le’eretz avoteinu,” some people translate “eretz avoteinu” as referring to the “land of our fathers.” (A phrase that doesn’t bother me like fatherland does, and which I <em>have</em> heard, many times.) Others translate it as “land of our ancestors,” which is also a legitimate rendering. I prefer the latter. (The Jewish genealogy journal, “Avotaynu,” certainly uses the word in that sense.)</p>

<p>Of course, that was all just an afterthought to what I said. I’m still waiting to hear you back up what you said about Jews controlling the media. Speaking of baloney! Or to hear you respond to anything on the subject without resorting to insults. Or to hear you acknowledge that you said something offensive to many people; the fact that you intended no offense is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether it <em>was</em> offensive.</p>

<p>Donna</p>

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<p>I don’t know enough about this issue to enter into this deadly debate; but I will delicately offer something of a bromide or perhaps even a few light words of what was once called wisdom. </p>

<p>***It is a common virtue to work to not offend others; all are capable as it takes nothing more than silence.</p>

<p>It is an uncommon virtue not to be offended; because it takes more than a diversion, it takes enormous effort and character.*** </p>

<p>In any case, both are virtues to be admired and practiced; sad to say, it seems that we only ever refer to the former…and completely neglect the one that comes only to those that wish to be better human beings.</p>

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<p>Here’s a 2004 letter I found from the Anti-Defamation League to CNN regarding Jews controlling the media. While there are undoubtedly powerful people of Jewish persuasion involved in the media, the ADL does not seem to think they “control” it. … Talk among yourselves. …</p>

<p>Jim Clancy
CNN
International Desk
One CNN Center
Atlanta, GA 30303</p>

<pre><code> June 25, 2004
</code></pre>

<p>Dear Mr. Clancy:</p>

<p>We were disturbed by the remark of an audience member during your roundtable discussion with members of the Iraqi press corps on the transfer of power in Iraq, which you recently moderated in Dubai Media City.</p>

<p>In a question directed to the panelists about press freedoms, an audience member who identified himself as a journalist with the Gulf News stated that, “Many people in the region believe that the U.S. media is – rightly or wrongly – Jewish controlled.” Unfortunately, this statement went totally unchallenged by you and the panelists.</p>

<p>The myth of “Jewish controlled” media has long been a staple of anti-Semites. This anti-Semitic canard is now widely accepted in the Arab world and pervasive in the Muslim and Arab Media, along with the myth of “Jewish control” of the U.S. government.</p>

<p>We hope that, in future, when confronted with such outlandish and stereotypical statements by one of your peers, you would immediately challenge the statement and make clear to your audience that this is anti-Semitism.</p>

<pre><code>Sincerely,
</code></pre>

<p>Anti-Defamation League</p>

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<p>I’m off on another tangent, inspired by Woodwork’s post. … </p>

<pre><code>While I do still get offended here at times–and sometimes downright mad–I’m less likely to do so these days. (Yes, this from the person who has flown into the occasional CC rage!) Not too long ago, my snarkiness really upset a person who differed from me politically, but who was someone I had come to respect. Of course, I felt lower than the proverbial snake’s belly after that and have since tried to lighten up a bit, while giving others the benefit of the doubt–that he or she has an argument to make and isn’t trying to be racist, sexist, bigoted, hateful, or offensive in the process. (No matter how much I may disagree with him or her!) We have a wonderful community of people on CC–right and left, Republican and Democrat, young and old, etc. Almost all are terrific if you get to “know” them, away from the political blather. Or even in the midst of the blather. During the course of two-plus years on CC, I’ve only come across one or two truly mean-spirited individuals. Yesterday was one of those times. I’ll climb down off my soapbox now, thank you very much.
</code></pre>

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<p>I don’t think that “Jews control the media”. I am sure that is a rant from despicable types of one sort or another. I also don’t believe that aliens control my thoughts (and I am quite sure that Karl Rove doesn’t either). I do know that there are a number of people who control large media organizations which include mainstream news outlets who are also Jewish. And I do find it shocking that they would not have at least made sure that the news with respect to Israel and the Middle East was fair. But that is very different from believing that any one group (be it from this earth or extraterrestrial) has complete control of anything.</p>

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<p>

  • Spideygirl, post 260. Just a reality check.</p>
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<p>Duh- take things out of context much? Is isn’t that there are Jewish people controlling media orgs which sickens me, it’s that they leave Israel out to dry. But you knew that, Kluge. Cutting and pasting people’s words should go hand in hand with at least a little integrity.</p>

<p>Here’s a reality check:
[CAMERA:</a> Study: On Nation’s Op-Ed Pages, Israel’s Voice is Stifled](<a href=“http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=33&x_article=1439]CAMERA:”>Study: On Nation’s Op-Ed Pages, Israel’s Voice is Stifled | CAMERA)</p>

<p>"According to many of Israel’s detractors, such as Jimmy Carter, Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer, pro-Israel voices dominate the American media and drown out pro-Palestinian views. Yet, if the Op-Ed pages of three leading national newspapers – the New York Times, the Washington Post and the Los Angeles Times – are any indication, the exact opposite is the case.</p>

<p>A 19-month CAMERA study, from January 2006 through July 2007, of guest Op-Eds about the Arab-Israeli conflict found that in these three papers pro-Arab Op-Eds and/or those critical of Israel overwhelmingly outnumbered pro-Israel Op-Eds and/or those critical of Arabs. Even more telling is the striking fact that during the 19-month period, none of the newspapers ran even a single Op-Ed by an Israeli official. In contrast, each of the three papers ran four Op-Eds by Arab officials, including multiple pieces by Hamas leaders."</p>

<p>A Jewish family controls the New York times, and the fact that they have shown not even neutrality towards a mideast war which could benefit Israel if won sickens me. That is the place where liberal zealousness becomes insanity.</p>

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<p>So now it’s dwindled from “so much of the media is controlled by Jewish people” (your original statement) to there being an unspecified, unidentified “number” of Jewish people who control large media outlets? Like who, exactly? I named most of the large, mainstream media outlets in this country in a previous post, and, remarkably enough, virtually none are owned/controlled by Jews! </p>

<p>And, of the news outlets that are “controlled by Jews,” I’d appreciate your identifying which ones are “unfair” in presenting news with respect to Israel and the Middle East. And how. And what makes you think that the political views of those particular Jewish people are in any way anti-Israel. And exactly how, given the general standards of independence for news organizations, you think these people are supposed to make the news more “fair.” Does this really all come down to the antipathy that the right wing has for the New York Times and the Sulzburger family? </p>

<p>Look, these questions are essentially rhetorical; I’m not really expecting you to sit there and answer them. And I’m sorry if you think I’m beating a dead horse, but I do very much dislike this kind of uninformed, highly stereotyped ethnic generalization. I think it’s pernicious, no matter how well-intentioned it may be.</p>

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<p>“I’d appreciate your identifying which ones are “unfair” in presenting news with respect to Israel and the Middle East”</p>

<p>See above post for someone else’s answer to your question.</p>

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<p>DonnaL: “Hey, anyone can get lucky (since I highly doubt you looked this up before using the term), and we all make mistakes – perhaps those of us who are German Jews by origin, and are children of survivors, and lost large numbers of close family members to the Holocaust at the hands of our own then-“vaterland,” are particularly sensitive to that particular word choice. Which, perhaps, is why I’ve never heard anyone in my family use it.”</p>

<p>Oh please - lucky? What a thing to say when proven wrong. You accused me of being a bigot as I stood up for Israel and used the word “fatherland”. You said NO ONE EVER used that term. It’s everywhere, pal. Now, instead of honorably admitting a mistake, there is nothing but backtracking. How about “I stand corrected”? You can own your personal feelings on a matter, but you can’t accuse someone else of doing something that they didn’t do and not get called out on it.</p>

<p>And by the way, I am quite sure that at least some of the members of the Israeli Philharmonic are from German Jewish families. </p>

<p>How ridiculous. This isn’t even a debate anymore.</p>