<p>bulletandpima - I saw the fist bump and the look on her face after she hugged him, prior to getting out of camera range (I assumed she left the stage). I also saw her mouth the words, “I love you”; I can’t even begin to imagine how she felt last night. As much as Obama dedicated all his hard work to his grandmother, I’ll bet she felt the same for her father.</p>
<p>I think they muzzled both Michelle and Bill during the latter part of the campaigns, though Bill broke his restraints toward the very end. I like them both very much, but they’re both smart and outspoken, and weren’t all that helpful with their occasional “misspeaks.” Note that Cindy McCain had no problems because she was never allowed to open her mouth in front of a camera–instead, appearing at McCain’s side as the mute and lovely mannequin-wife.</p>
<p>Things will never be the same with the hyper-democratization of the internet. </p>
<p>Over time, we will all, I suppose, begin to adjust our sensitivity and sense of indignation to the more clumsy and imperfect manifestations that make up the lives and past lives of our elected servants: friends, families and religious persuasions & affiliations. </p>
<p>Our political professionals have become celebrities. Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie have to fight it out with Barack and Michelle for photo spreads, gossip and bookings.</p>
<p>This is, in this particular election, complicated by the larger than life personalities of the two Democrats spouses, Bill and Michelle. Both of whom, in many interesting ways, tower over their spouses: Of course they are going to catch it.</p>
<p>Hanna: “I pointed out that your opinion was dismissive and presumptuous towards me and my ethnic group. I used sarcasm to do that. It has nothing whatsoever to do with free speech.”</p>
<p>Oh, I get it. So the debate has moved past trying to limit free speech, and we’re now in the land of oppressing opinions by feigning insult. Not on this planet or any other is there a shred of truth behind the post to which I am responding. There is no sincere belief that dismissiveness or presumptiousness towards any ethnic group occured. There is only the old, worn out trick of displaying insult in order to detract from issues. </p>
<p>I don’t have to be Jewish to have the opinion that Jewish people in this country and every other should be the FIRST in line to protect Israel, and I couldn’t care less if someone thinks otherwise. I am OK if a person wants to imagine that as presumptuous or dismissive (or even pretend to do so, as a weak debate tool). </p>
<p>We are talking about politics. About the direction we as a nation should take in the world. About the survival of Israel, our biggest ally in the most dangerous part of this planet. It is extremely narcissistic to take things so personally. </p>
<p>I dig the free speech thing, and I am not intimidated by baloney.</p>
<p>Hindoo: “Note that Cindy McCain had no problems because she was never allowed to open her mouth in front of a camera–instead, appearing at McCain’s side as the mute and lovely mannequin-wife.”</p>
<p>Let’s not hate on someone for being hot, rich, and the owner of a beer distributorship.</p>
<p>“we’re now in the land of oppressing opinions by feigning insult”</p>
<p>No, spideygirl, I promise, you really did insult me by spewing that garbage about Jews controling the media. It’s not enough that you know what’s good for my people and I don’t…you also know what’s going on in my head, and I don’t. Got it.</p>
<p>For the record, it is not “oppressing” your opinion (whatever that means) to call you out for what you said. That’s the risk you take when you exercise your right to free speech.</p>
<p>“Jewish people in this country and every other should be the FIRST in line to protect Israel”</p>
<p>See, but the thing is, your beliefs about what constitutes protecting Israel are your opinion, not holy writ. The Jews we’re talking about think that they ARE protecting Israel. But you’re not arguing that, in their attempts to protect Israel, they are adopting the wrong strategy. You are saying that they are not in line protecting Israel at all. And that, spideygirl, is extremely insulting to a Jew.</p>
<p>First, I agree with Spidey about Cindy…it’s not about her, it’s about her husband. Let’s remember any Presidential wife will need to understand in a global world many countries do not respect women as much as our country. Secondly, she is not running for pres. her husband is, she is there to emotionally and mentally support him. Cindy McCain will not be making decisions…nor will Michelle.</p>
<p>Let’s remember they are very aware how Michelle’s comment I have never been proud to be an American until now was warped and will hurt him. Better to keep her smiling and quiet, b/c our political areana would warp her saying good morning as being offensive instead of saying good day!</p>
<p>For Israel, my MIL is jewish and @ 70, her family heriatge is from Hungary. We all need to be cognisant of the fact that many Americans have family members that were lost to an inhumane death</p>
<p>Let’s revisit would Spidey said:
</p>
<p>So all she stated was that she understood why Jewish people would not want a president that would speak with Iran with no pre conditions. MY MIL has never gotten past the inhumanity of the world due to religion…it is not a big leap that she can’t accept a pres. who doesn’t get her feelings</p>
<p>“all she stated was that she understood why Jewish people would not want a president that would speak with Iran with no pre conditions.”</p>
<p>No, she stated that it sickened her that the Jews who control the media* are spreading propaganda that directly harms their fatherland.</p>
<p>*Which, come on…I expect this kind of thing from Borat. What century is this?</p>
<p>“You really did insult me”</p>
<p>Well, I’ll answer that with your words:</p>
<p>“That’s the risk you take when you exercise your right to free speech.”</p>
<p>Frankly, if someone chooses to take offense when I try to point out the truth about how Israel is being mistreated, I couldn’t care less.</p>
<p>“It’s not enough that you know what’s good for my people and I don’t”</p>
<p>Anyone who thinks that it is OK for people of Jewish heritage to assist any movement which negatively impacts Israel has NO IDEA what is right for the Jewish people. If that means that I think I know what is right for the Jewish people, then so be it. I guess I do. I believe the nation of Israel has a good idea of what it needs to survive, and I support that.</p>
<p>“For the record, it is not “oppressing” your opinion (whatever that means) to call you out for what you said.”</p>
<p>Funny, I feel I am the one calling someone out. </p>
<p>Hanna: When a person is offended for something which should not have been said, an apology is in order. This is not in any way one of those situations. Please, do keep cutting and pasting my quotes. I feel so strongly about them, that I appreciate seeing them repeated.</p>
<p>I am completely confident that many who are Jewish are not offended by the notion that Jews should be first in line to protect Israel. In fact, I have received personal messages from others on CC stating just that. </p>
<p>If you are of Jewish heritage, and are fortunate enough to control a major media outlet, it is certainly an abomination to be spreading propaganda which impacts Israel in a negative way. One would think that journalistic integrity would prevent news outlets from being turned into propaganda machines, but apparently that isn’t happening. </p>
<p>Clearly, the nation of Israel is in a good position to know what it needs to survive. Follow the trail of what it has wanted from the American media, and what it has or has not gotten from it, to comprehend my position.</p>
<p>”Which, come on…I expect this kind of thing from Borat. What century is this?”</p>
<p>This is a time and a place where people are allowed to express their opinions, whether or not others find them offensive.</p>
<p>The emperor has no clothes.</p>
<p>You know, spideygirl, in the same way that you posit that Israel is best positioned to know what it needs, maybe major news organizations are better positioned than you to know what actually constitutes journalistic integrity?</p>
<p>You keep making vague references to what the media is doing to harm Israel. Care to specify what you’re referencing? I’m interested.</p>
<p>1of42: “maybe major news organizations are better positioned than you to know what actually constitutes journalistic integrity?”</p>
<p>Ah, if only that were the case!</p>
<p>My references are not vague. I thought it was common sense that most major media outlets have been pounding on the Bush administration and its military action in Iraq (thereby encouraging the enemy). Do I need to connect all of the dots? Bush leaving office in 1/09 has some wondering if Israel will attack Iran beforehand. Why would that be? Why would Israel want to start a war with Iran before Bush leaves office? And if Israel considers Bush a good ally, how might that nation feel about the mainstream media undermining his efforts to plant the seed of democracy in the Middle East?</p>
<p>And I am not getting into a two-person debate with you again, pal. :)</p>
<p>I will let others have the last word on the subject:</p>
<p>If you Google “Jews control media,” the first 8 hits are explicitly anti-Semitic web sites. The 9th hit is a recording of President Nixon complaining to Billy Graham about the Jews in charge of Newsweek. And the 10th hit is a letter from the Anti-Defamation League to CNN protesting a journalist’s failure to challenge a commentator who referred to Jewish media control, stating:</p>
<p>–The myth of “Jewish controlled” media has long been a staple of anti-Semites. This anti-Semitic canard is now widely accepted in the Arab world and pervasive in the Muslim and Arab Media, along with the myth of “Jewish control” of the U.S. government. We hope that, in future, when confronted with such outlandish and stereotypical statements by one of your peers, you would immediately challenge the statement and make clear to your audience that this is anti-Semitism.–</p>
<p>Personally, spidey, I don’t think the mainstream media has been nearly hard enough on the Bush administration in regard to Iraq. As I’ve said before, we had unfinished work to be done in Afghanistan and had no business altering course midstream and invading another country–no matter how vile the despot in charge of said country. … As for Israel and Iran. Didn’t they take out nuclear devices there a number of years back, or was that Iraq? (I’m so senile these days, please excuse!) … I love Israel with all of my heart, most especially its feisty and defiant people. Their national personality is such that they’ll ultimately do what they’re going to do, regardless of who’s president. And incidentally, I know from several visits to family in Israel that a pretty fair number of Israelis are not all that intoxicated with admiration for Bush, even if he is allegedly a “friend.” Their love for the U. S., however, seems to know no bounds. I saw a t-shirt being sold there with a picture of a fighter jet and the words: “Don’t worry America, Israel is behind you!” Like I said, feisty. They don’t know how small and vulnerable they are, which in the end, makes them strong.</p>
<p>Agreed, Hanna. “Jews controlling the media” has long been part of the anti-semitic rant, but I don’t feel spidey meant it that way in her post. If I had thought that, I would have taken offense immediately … but somehow, I didn’t.</p>
<p>Hindoo, I see your point. But I think that if you innocently spread an ethnic slander – let’s say about black people and their fondness for watermelon – and a member of the group takes offense, there are respectful and dismissive ways to react to that offense.</p>
<p>I also think that if you’re going to participate in a debate about what Jews should and shouldn’t be doing in relation to Israel, you ought to come prepared with some basic cultural literacy on the subject. If you’ve never heard of this slur, then you can’t be very familiar with the prejudices Jews have to cope with on the world stage and the history that brought us where we are.</p>
<p>spideygirl: You must be living in a very special place indeed to seriously assert that being opposed to the Iraq war constitutes propaganda against Israel. A very special place…</p>
<p>That’s a tidy simplification, 1of42. A very special, and tidy, simplification.</p>
<p>Hanna: Your phrase “Jews control media” - Doesn’t it sound different out of context? Yes, it is always possible to twist what others are intending. I personally think it is more honorable to debate the issues, rather than detract from them with extraneous nonsense.</p>
<p>I first heard that many individuals of Jewish heritage were high up in media organizations while in college. It was for an introductory political science class, and the professor was Jewish.</p>
<p>It is absurd and strange to overreact in a bizzarre way to the notion that many ethnic groups which came to our shores congregated in more than average numbers in certain fields. If it is true that there are people in a position to at least give Israel a fair shake in the news, even if it is out of subjective sentiment, so be it. That works for me.</p>
<p>I haven’t done a study on the topic, but I believe there are still very many people who are Jewish and who control different media outlets. It is also true that from many of these sources comes a barrage of anti-Iraq, anti-Bush sentiment. This is not good for Israel.</p>
<p>Hanna, it is all kinds of amusing that my pro-Israel position is convoluted in your post to the extent that an association with anti-Semitism was made. Wow - with friends like this, does Israel need enemies???</p>
<p>Personally, this exchange is a different, but perfect example, of how those who should be doing the best job to support Israel end up lobbying against it. Accuse those who support Israel the most of being anti-Semitic. What a brilliant and constructive position.</p>
<p>What have we come to that a person who claims to be Jewish would rather label a person anti-Semitic rather than have them support Israel in a way which differs from the way that they would like it supported?</p>
<p>Hanna: “We hope that, in future, when confronted with such outlandish and stereotypical statements by one of your peers, you would immediately challenge the statement and make clear to your audience that this is anti-Semitism.”</p>
<p>Such a gigantic pile of baloney. There certainly were outlandish statements made, but not by me.</p>
<p>Hindoo: “Their love for the U. S., however, seems to know no bounds. I saw a t-shirt being sold there with a picture of a fighter jet and the words: “Don’t worry America, Israel is behind you!” Like I said, feisty. They don’t know how small and vulnerable they are, which in the end, makes them strong.”</p>
<p>I love all of that.</p>
<p>The Iraq war is a different topic now. We’ll go more rounds on it another time.</p>
<p>Hanna: “But I think that if you innocently spread an ethnic slander – let’s say about black people and their fondness for watermelon”</p>
<p>Oh dear.</p>
<p>If I were a person who liked to take offense, this might be a good place to start. To compare a relatively respectful political debate, and difference of opinion, to a very real example of racism, shows an incredible amount of insensitivity.</p>
<p>Let’s not dilute examples of extreme slurs by trying to compare them to nothing of the sort. There are better and less harmful ways to win an argument.</p>