It is going to be a hard year to be an AO, for sure. I can understand them wanting whatever info they can get their hands on to guide their decisions. They have so much less to go on.
I have nothing against the CSS’s goals. I am skeptical that the schools will all use it the “right” way, though, especially since testing and grades are not going to be so reliable as in years past. Ultimately, I question what actionable information they can garner from an individual’s scores.
We submitted kiddo’s CSS scores, and lackluster as they were, he did fine with admissions. My thing is that, at least for him, the scores did not accurately describe the kid we knew at the time, nor did they predict the kid’s behavior in bs so far. So I hope that the schools don’t rely on the CSS more than they have in the past. The tool has a lot of maturing still to do.
I agree with @CateCAParent that the css did not accurately reflect my kid who took it (the older did not). It was a bizarre test that asked him to choose between things he would never have to choose between. His score was almost the opposite of his actual personality - showing that he demonstrated (is that the right word) skills/qualities he most certainly does not irl and that he was only developing characteristics that he has been demonstrating since 5th grade.
Regarding standardized tests. Here’s what I don’t understand (while fully recognizing that they are not perfect and have gotten somewhat off their original purpose) how do you separate a bunch of 4.0 kids without a standardized test? From my conversations with parents in many lps their kids have 4.0s and above and their homework is done before they get off the bus. How are boarding schools and colleges going to understand that without tests? There’s no way colleges or BSs can know all the schools attended by applicants. And frankly no lps is going to admit on a school profile that their kids do barely any real work and still have 4.3 gpas.
No college is unfamiliar with the boarding schools, and applications are read by regional readers who know the high schools in their regions. No one is fooling anyone in this game. I would argue that standardized tests are the least relevant factor in distinguishing among applicants, and many colleges seem to agree. The purpose of standardized tests is to indicate that an applicant can handle college-level work, nothing more. (You would hope that most college applicants can handle the work, so only low scores should be a concern; high scores should be irrelevant.) Today, due to prep and retakes, standardized test scores are mainly indicating facility with multiple-choice test-taking, not a very relevant metric for higher learning and certainly no reasonable basis for hair-splitting.
There should be zero worry about your BS student’s evaluation by colleges as your student is not competing against any LPS student, but only against his/her peers from their BS, and that boarding school’s rigor is well understood by every college your child is applying to.
ETA: Per @DroidsLookingFor comment below, a disconnect between grades and test scores can indicate grade inflation, test-taking in/ability, or perhaps an off/ill day. One of these is not like the other.
It’s funny that you mention that @one1ofeach. We have close friends with kids in that exact situation: 7th, 8th, 9th graders who all get straight A’s or better, are able to do all their homework in the last 5 minutes of class every day, etc.
They all just took a standardized test to get a baseline, and they pretty much all got blown out of the water. Kids and parents were stunned. Their schools hadn’t prepared them at all. (This is the school district from which we fled…)
I have to agree with all the points mentioned. From our tiny LDS that no one is familiar with, how does a BS realize what DDs (and formerly DSs) 4.0 means and where their current ability to handle challenging academics is compared to their public school applicants without a standard measure?
Colleges (some) may know the rigor of a BS. But they may not. DS is applying to a few schools that are not looked at by many New England students. Without his ACT score, he’d be an unlikely candidate simply because the school is very small and selective and few from SMS consider it. But his old day school gets several people admitted each year. SMS is much more challenging than his old school, but out of area, so they aren’t as familiar.
That being said, this day school is heads and shoulders above the area public schools, but who would know that a B from the day school would be equivalent to A++ from public. (We have had classmates who were B students leave and make 100 averages at public and tell us the curriculum is drastically behind/more lenient than what it is at the private school).
I think the premise of standardized leveling is needed because not all As are equivalent. Many straight A students cannot handle the rigor of too universities. But the evolution of the standardized testing has negated its original purpose. And learning how to cheat the multiple choice system has now become a skill set. This no longer translates to college readiness.
I’m not sure what the answer is. DD will still take the SSAT. If her score accurately reflects her ability, great. If not, we will take advantage of the TO, I guess and get another recommendation or essay ready.
If we are talking about distinguishing among middle school applicants to boarding schools, boarding schools DO have experience with a broad range of middle schools in every state, and they do insist on writing samples and interviews to get a sense of how the child thinks, expresses, and could contribute to the community. It is a holistic approach, and BS are not looking to pack all their classes with top scorers, either grades or GPAs. It bothers some people that some applicants will gain admission to a school with lower grades and/or test scores or with disconnects between them or with grade-inflated GPAs, but the schools themselves are not bothered by this as those metrics (high or low) are not always what makes a particular applicant shiny to a particular school and they are expert at ferreting out which applicants will do well in their communities. For the most part, they get this right.
Unfortunately, there are instances where a student is admitted who struggles socially or academically beyond remediation, and those students generally leave. But, if the concern is that somehow BS are fooled into accepting less-qualified over-inflated applicants over better qualified applicants, that’s not happening on any scale.
ETA: Sorry, I’m not sure if the concern is about evaluating middle school student to BS or BS students to college.
ETAA: Standardized test scores WILL weed out grade inflation when there is a disconnect, so no issue there. If the grade-inflated 4.5’s also get top test scores, then those students show they have mastered a general body of knowledge and can probably do the work either at BS or college so what does it matter? You can’t control anyone else—ever. All your child can do, either for BS or college, is put together his/her own best application and let the chips fall where they may. If you think your child is harmed by the rigor of the middle school or high school s/he attended, that is another topic that has been done to death here, and some people will choose the grade-inflated education for perhaps better BS or college results, but “better” is always debatable. Most here opt for the better MS/HS education and don’t give it another thought
Boy, I’m really wandering. @buuzn03 is correct: Not all As are the same. But, most here have chosen the better current education (MS/BS) over attempting to game the next-level education, and I think that is always the better choice. Besides, once you’ve made that decision, you’ve made it. No turning back. There is no sense worrying about how the over-inflated, less well-educated fare or how they compare to your student in the application game. You can’t control that, so might as well let it go. And would you really want your child to be less educated at this step to be less well prepared for the next step? Probably not.
@buuzn03: Don’t short-chance SMS. Between the school profile and the school’s advocacy for your son, he will NOT be disadvantaged in any way in his college process. I think you underestimate colleges’ familiarity with SMS.
I am not really worried about the grade inflation issue - I was more pointing out that standardized tests have a place since schools vary so widely. The reason it was top of my mind was that a parent was asking me about BS and shared about his son with a top GPA and no homework and not wanting to jeopardize that since it left his son plenty of time to do extra workouts for his sport etc. He is being recruited by several of the BS/day schools in the area and one of his concerns is workload/ability to get a high enough GPA for college recruiting.
It just made me think about the difference of a kid getting a 4.3 with no homework vs my kid with loads of homework every night barely eeking out whatever his GPA is (school doesn’t calculate so I don’t know - they tell me when I ask - for camps/clinics- but it makes little sense to me because they don’t tell me how they get that number). I know my kid will be able to handle college work no problem. That makes me happy with our decision. And I do wonder if that kid were to get into an Ivy or a top Nescac, would he be able to do the work plus play a sport - I don’t really know the stats on that kind of thing. But I suspect there’s a reason the NCAA has an SAT cut off…(had a cutoff?)
Really just my musings because I was asked about it recently.
I’ve posted before and elsewhere that freshman year at the academy, our son was randomly paired with the val of the grade-inflated HS he would have attended had he stayed home. That kid is a wonderful young man and strong leader (and is on his way to head a platoon in the sandbox next month), but he struggled academically and was on probation twice. Our son tutored him through both times and got a firsthand look at the difference between their educations and preparation. No comparison, but they ended up in the same place and are equal contributors to the military.
I believe boarding school, with its required athletics, make it easy for kids to slide into college while playing a sport. They are already used to the time management needed to make both happen.
Also, the colleges totally know boarding schools and the rigor at them. The only place it might have an effect is at an Ivy with the AI. My son did not go through Ivy recruiting, though, so I don’t really know about that.
Thanks @ChoatieMom I’m not sure if I’m short chancing SMS or they are. They are the ones that moved the school from stretch to reach/unlikely based on their lack of experience with admissions there. So, maybe I’m placing more stress on the ACT because I feel it may be necessary for DS’s application to get a full look. DS was always #1 in his class (The school with multiple kids admitted each year) with no homework or studying at home. He is nowhere near that at BS and has to work for his A’s. Which kind of supports what @one1ofeach is saying about the large variance between schools.
As for DD, I’m not overly concerned-this time around we used an entirely holistic approach. Very few of her schools are considered “selective” and we did not use test scores or matriculations as a filtering process. (We learned so much from Round 1).
Because society has placed an emphasis on standardized results, she’s taking the test (some schools are still requiring it) but only once regardless.
Again, I feel the premise behind standardized testing is sound. I feel the recent trends of gaming the system (strategy/multiple takes/superscoring) have negated that basal purpose.
Yes, I am very hapy with the way I predict my kids will handle college. It is the number one thing I remind myself when I am feeling worried about anything BS related!
The college side of CC promoted a book by Jeffrey Sellingo Called “Who Gets In and Why” - I went ahead and read it. It kind of addresses these issues of the value of standardized testing and the impact on kids from schools who aren’t known to the college.
My takeaway- the scores aren’t as valuable as we think, and the kids who have to worry if they go away are high achievers in publics that don’t have a track record in that particular school’s admissions. One of the reasons why is that the public high school profile and recommendations (also not as important as we think), tend to be much less informative than what privates submit. If you take away that data, ao’s have almost nothing to go by, and won’t take the risk on a kid.
I heard an adage years ago that goes something like: if there is a complex system that people try to change to make it more fair to those with fewer resources, those people with more resources will fare better after the change, too. If you think about it, standardized scores were implemented to level the playing field and minimize systemic bias. People with resources turned that upside down by paying for test prep. Taking away standardized testing, especially with “holistic admissions” (whatever that is) just puts everything back how it was - schools will be able to admit whoever they want and won’t have to explain it. That can only benefit those with resources.
With that in mind, I think bs kids will do fine in college admissions even without scores. The few remaining things in the app - school rep, essay-writing, recommendations, extra-curriculars, athletics, etc. - all favor private school kids. Especially if they are full pay.
Seriously, @buuzn03, more conversations between you and your son’s CC and your son and his CC should either help you understand how they will support your son’s application and/or provide you/him with the opportunity to enlighten them a bit on your understanding of the particular college’s admissions process and what is needed from them. We’ve BTDT–Choate (or just our son’s terrific CC) did not have a firm grasp on service academy admissions, but the school absolutely stepped up to doing its part quickly at each required step. Our son just had to be on top of the process with them. Also, don’t underestimate the depth and power of LORs written by teachers who know your son well and how his school plays against the competition. They will highlight his achievements in context. I’m waiting for you to post all about his happy results in a few month.
We were told a story by an AO about a school on the other side of the country that didn’t admit kids from this BS. A cc called the college and had a long talk explaining things like the grading system, average gpa and average sat score among other things. The college started admitting kids. @buuzn03 if your son wants to apply to a school in TX that has never heard of SMS I’d expect and suggest to the cc that they need to call that college and have a conversation about what SMS is all about. They should be advocating for your kid!!
Thanks, y’all, for the encouragement. And @CateCAParent that book seems like something I should probably read. I need to stay out of the college side for class of ‘21, also.
A funny (or maybe not so) story - DS applied to my alma mater this weekend while he was stuck in his dorm quarantining. He called to verify he was reading the auto-admit criteria correctly. Sure enough, if you are last in your class but score above a 23 on your ACT, no info other than your demographic application is required on your application and you are accepted. ? Top 10% of classes only need a 15. ?
Agree with @ChoatieMom , don’t underestimate the support your child will have through the process. Note the story above: the CC was happy to take the time to talk about the BS, and the college was interested and receptive to learning about the BS.
