I see a combination of the Top 10 - 12 business schools and the Top 20 private schools (like Duke, which does not have an undergraduate college of business).
Perhaps you would consider doing an AMA or joining mine? Sounds like you have first hand experience.
This article doesn’t directly answer the question from OP, but it does discuss a widespread phenomenon regarding women and Econ. It may be worth a gander to understand what has been studied about the situation (why women are less inclined to major in Econ and what the characteristics are surrounding this behavior).
I believe this is a digest version of the paper (the original that I read years back I can’t recall where it is). Claudia Goldin is of course the Nobel laureate professor of economics at Harvard who did incredible work involving gender equity (in the Boston symphony orchestra) as well as notably the gender pay gap.
Note (from this paper):
“ Does math-ability have much to do with these differences? The raw difference between males and females in declaring economics as one of the three top choices upon acceptance is 0.187. Including the pre-admission scores on the SAT math and the Adams math placement test reduces the difference by just 1 percentage points to 0.177. Math-ability does not have much to do with the initial decision to major in economics and with the eventual major.”
The point is that at many of the top privates there is a 2:1 ratio of men to women majoring in Econ. Math scores (if assumed to correlate with preparedness) of the students intending to join the major, explains only a small portion.
So if your target schools accept somewhat by intended major, I’d expect the stats bar to be the same (or perhaps lower) for OP’s D. In fact, they may be willing to take more of a risk due to the 2:1 ratio. However, if OP’s D doesn’t like math, there is an unfortunately well worn pathway away from the major she’ll have to avoid.
This is a long way to say: I think the schools would probably favor her if they felt she could handle the math and not get affected by some academic bruises. If pushed, my opinion would be that if she would probably be fine with the usual scores (vs higher scores for women) given that her math portion shows well.
But this is just a meandering extrapolation off of a paper I found interesting.
For a variety of reasons, I wouldn’t commit to the “anything” aspect of “ask me anything.”
While off topic you aren’t obligated to respond to something you are uncomfortable responding to because it says “anything”. You can fully maintain your privacy and confidentiality.
It certainly would help others if you were willing to get vetted and share your experiences.
Your aspirations should not be your child’s aspirations. I am sorry.
Your daughter seems like a marvelous person. As others have politely tried to tell you on here, this is way too premature and unless your daughter meets an institutional priority (athletics for example), getting into one of the schools you have listed is extremely low.
The paper notes that there is a difference in the number of women vs men initially choosing Econ as a major, and among those who do, the percentage who stick with it. It then goes on to ask why, and proposes a few hypotheses that are then not born out. It seems to me the easiest way to find out would have been to have also conducted a survey asking that direct question but they did not. I personally wonder if the fact that the field is notorious for it’s toxic masculinity comes into play.
Thanks but I’m not sure what you are sorry about…the subject of the thread wasn’t about directly assessing my daughter’s admission chances at certain schools, although I do appreciate your input
@Strannik , that seemed to be exactly what you were asking in your first post, as well as in your follow-up defenses.
That is so true for investment banks. It makes me sad because all of the schools are expensive that they recruit from. We are not wealthy but would also not qualify as need based enough to get anything more than a few thousand off so it feels like my kiddo is just out of luck.
To some extent…although by “suggestions for resources on the matter” I didn’t quite mean " unqualified opinions about admission chances based on incomplete information and guesses about parents’ and daughter’s aspirations". Thanks!
SMU is on the list of schools that some investment banks recruit from and it has pretty strong economics and a separate business school.
Certainly a great school, and we are considering it, thanks.
Well, surveys vs quantifiable data have different weight in terms of research (for better or for worse). I gathered that Goldin was trying to steer clear of the “softer” data that surveys provide, again for better or for worse. From what i gather, the bulk of economists would prefer to stay clear of surveys for this kind of result.
Having said that, you are correct about the results of incoming vs outgoing econ majors (as shown in table 1), where there is roughly a 2:1 M/F ratio for both. However, she does point out that the incoming ratio is only part of the issue (and btw is free from the “bro-ish” influence noted in the Forbes article), and that “grade sensitivity” in first year classes plays a role in gender differences (Fig6B). She also hypothesizes that the level of math may have something to do with (although I can see your point that the data doesn’t necessarily play out completely here… she admits this part re: Econ 202. The funny part is that there is a delta related to macroeconomics regardless of the amount of math involved… that’s strange)
Table 1 does reveal a 2.05:1 incoming ratio and a 2.28 outgoing ratio, which does imply that more is going on beyond the incoming ratio.
For the OP, again this is all a little roundabout so should be taken with a grain of salt and used as generic background info. If it were my D, I’d make sure her comfort with math aligns with the institution and that I wouldn’t worry about the “penalty” for a surplus of female applicants as I’d think the situation re: econ would cancel it out. I mean, what would you do to help this situation as an admissions dean?
(and sorry, I don’t have specific information here. there is a dearth of info on your specific question - as you know - and I think the answers you’re getting reflect that fact. Oh, and there is a bit of ethnicity info in the paper, ie asians don’t have a large M/F ratio. White students have a 3:1 ratio shown in the data)
Neither of these schools should be considered a safety: Davidson has a 17% acceptance rate and W&L has a 19% acceptance rate. Some other options that would be closer to being a safety with good economics programs: UWisconsin-Madison (if ok with a big school), Occidental, Holy Cross, DePauw, George Washington. [Note: i specifically noted that these are “closer to being a safety” - you should also have an actual safety or two - Schools with 75%+ acceptance rates)
I guess the thought here is that white females are at the low end of the distribution so her 33 total and 31 Math will be competitive within that group? Based on knowing many many white females at Top20s, including my own(one of whom got perfect math Psat and SAT scores with essentially no prep). There are far more high-scoring white females attending these schools than not. There are even more that are rejected from these top schools.
Looking into data on the ACT, the gender gap has been closing. Females at the average mark are about one point above males on English, and less than 1 point below males on Math. That is at the averages: it could be less difference at the 98-99th%ile, I cannot find data. But with white women being over-represented in applicant pool, and many many more females who score the mid-range 33-34 on math than there are spots at the T20s, there would be no conceivable need to take any students, female or not, with math scores of 31. It does not mean they don’t --it just means they do not need to lower any standards to find women who score their school’s averages in math. Those admitted kids with lower stats likely are hooked in some way.
Not necessarily the “thought”. Just looking for stratified data which apparently colleges are not forthcoming with.
So national test scores across the board are dropping - across genders and races - but you think the very top cohort is somehow increasing in competitiveness? Possible but not convincing IMO
Curious…how does one know many many white females at top 20 schools? Clearly, your circle is different than mine. You seem to have access to a wealth of information, maybe you can share the source.
Actually, when every one was still taking the tests, there are plenty of sources that indicate the number of students scoring 34/35/36 went UP each year 2016-2019, even in years when the average was the same or down. The SAT shows similar data. With test optional, the data isnt comparable 2020 on.
When your kid attends a top 20 you tend to know lots of kids at top 20s. Their friends, roomates, teammates, etc.
I would have thought that’s why you came here. Looking for insights from people who have been through the process but it seems like you are looking for affirmation of pre conceived misconceptions.