My child is applying to colleges this Fall. She has excellent grades (4+ GPA weighted- 3.9 unweighted) and has done well- but not as well as she’d like on the SATs. She scored a 1280 on the PSAT and a 1310 on the SAT (670V 640M). She’d like to retake them but honestly, it’s unlikely they’d change much- and IMO, they’re strong. The problem is that schools like Babson et. al, Show extraordinarily high SATs- but also show that only about 1/3rd submit scores. Our sense is that 1310 is high enough to submit SATs even if they are below the schools posted average- since it’s still a strong score. IYHO, should she submit?
Colleges with holistic admission will often try to interpret a student’s grades and scores in the context of their high school. Do you know what SAT scores are typical for students at her HS? Is this info shown in the HS profile?
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She needs rock solid safeties- just like every other kid applying to college.
As long as she has those, then I think not submitting to the schools where her grades put her solidly in the “admit” category but where her scores are low is a fine strategy.
But make sure she’s got the safeties identified before she falls in love elsewhere!
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I would apply test optional if the test score is below the average.
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In addition to you giving us some context of her HS/peer scores, has she asked her HS counselor for guidance?
It is also appropriate for her to seek guidance from the colleges themselves regarding submitting test scores, via admission sessions (whether in person or virtual) and/or directly with the admissions officer that covers her region/HS.
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More important than SAT is budget. Are you full pay?
Given the 25th percentile is 1410 - hmmmm - no - you should not submit - given only 25% did, you won’t be disadvantaged. 1310 is too far from 1410.
What is your budget situation - if you are full pay, that’s more important given that only 1/3 get need aid.
If you applied to Babson, make sure you have Bentley too - and you can submit.
The thing with the GPA - it means less today due to grade inflation. What is her rigor - you can be a 4.0 but have little rigor, etc.
Babson is a tough get but full pay will help…the SAT will hurt. And since few submit, not submitting won’t hurt.
Good luck.
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I am not sure that we actually know the answer to this unless we are admissions staff (I am not), and even then I am not sure that it is the same for every university.
My inclination would be to submit if you are at the 50th percentile or above, don’t submit if you are at the 25th percentile or below, and in between I do not think that it is clear.
For Babson a 1310 is below the 25th percentile (assuming that I have this right) so to me it would be a “do not submit” case.
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My daughter’s counselor’s advice has been “Submit to schools where your score is above the average.” We are sticking by that at her “Test Optional” schools
Every school we’ve visited was very clear that they don’t want to see your scores if they’re below their average. The only exception are the few schools that have an explicit “no harm” policy where they’ll only consider your score if it helps you and will not hold it against you if it doesn’t.
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Chiming in with the others…the “strength” of a score is really only measured as being relative to the admitted students of each particular school.
As an example, in my kid’s case, they had a 790 ERW, 750 Math. That is a very strong score for the college that they currently attend—in comparison to the range of admitted students— and it was presumably part of the decision process (coupled with their GPA) for them receiving a very significant merit scholarship. But my kid doesn’t go to a “prestigious” school.
If my kid had applied to places such as MIT, Princeton, University of Chicago, Stanford, etc…that 750 math score is below all of those schools’ 25th percentiles relative to their admitted students, and my kid’s SAT score would not be a “strong” score at all in that particular context. It’s all relative.
They’re ridiculous tests; I would agree with others here to not submit your daughter’s score to schools where she would be below that school’s average—it may only have admissions perhaps wonder if her high GPA was inflated, or her classes, load, or high school were not that difficult when there is a perceived “mis-match” between one’s test scores and their GPA. (Not that that perception is valid! It is still a stupid test! But scores are a data point that they consider in context, when it’s submitted and is part of the package.)
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While in the Babson case they are 100 points below so I don’t think anyone can logically suggest submission, what you were told is interesting because roughly half on average or half is using the median are below that midpoint.
So that tells me it must be athletes, under represented populations by race, skill set, or money, or the really wealthy that must be submitting under those averages.
It’s years later but 5 years ago you couldn’t get anyone to guide you. It was always, if you feel it helps you or adds to your story so at least they are now guiding (it sounds like).
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Great explanation and model we are following.
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I’m on the “if your score falls at or above the average SAT score, then submit” camp until I ran across a FB post asking this same question about submitting SAT scores. Someone posted this which gave me pause and made me even reconsider. What do you all think?
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i think it depends - on so many things. Who you are - race, age academically (GPA) and more. It may also depend on the major sought, state from, gender, wealth, and so many things. In general though, I’d hesitate below the top 25% unless I had some sort of hook…I think the average or median…well half (on median) will be lower so it seems like one could certainly submit them.
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I will admit that I had a chance of heart on this issue a few weeks ago based on a good point made in someone else’s post.
Let’s suppose that 50% of the students at a selective school submitted test scores. It is likely that most of the students that did not submit had lower scores. I suppose that a few might have not taken the SAT or ACT test at all, but that might be less common. If your SAT is close to the 25th percentile of the publicly available information for scores for admitted students, that means that among the half of the students that did submit, for any 4 of them 3 had higher scores and 1 had lower scores. However, there were also just as many other students that did not submit at all, which suggests that your test scores are still likely to be better than the average scores for all students (including ones that did not submit their scores). I am confident that admissions staff understands this.
However, schools are not necessarily always 100% altruistic, and if you submit a test score that is around the advertised 25th percentile, and if you get accepted, then you will pull down the range of scores that they get to advertise (or at least pull down the mean score). Will they be reluctant to admit you because they want to raise advertised test scores to improve their rankings? I do not know, and this might depend upon the school.
This leaves me confident to submit with a test score that is better than or equal to the advertised mean. However, for a score that is between the advertised 25th percentile and the advertised mean I do not know which way I would go, and probably would not submit unless there was some good reason to submit the score.
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I was surprised to see that an element not mentioned in the article is the high school profile, and how, if at all that might impact the analysis. My understanding is that schools provide colleges with a profile of their high school that includes mean SAT score information (or mid-range, or something). So, if a student goes to a very competitive high school and is doing relatively well, but not at the top of the class, but their SAT score is far below their HS mean, how should that factor in? Say the college median is 1300, the student has a 1310, but his high school median is a 1450. The 1310 doesn’t enhance the good grades which are above his high school median, it is an area where he is doing worse than his peers. But, the score is slightly above the college median, and way above the 100-150 points below the college median that the article says is the assumed score for non-submitters at some colleges. The inverse to this example could probably be true too, a student with a relatively weak SAT score compared to the college middle 50% doesn’t submit, but that score is high compared to their high schools reported median, but maybe not as high as one might assume from their grades.
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I definitely agree it should be in the context of the rest of the application. However, I’ve seen some schools explicitly say only submit if it’s in the middle 50 or higher. I’d think wherever possible ask that question at an admissions presentation or similar. The answer might not be the same for all schools. I’d be wary of assuming that all schools impute a bad score if it’s not there - especially those who explicitly say not submitting a score will not disadvantage the application. If there is info that they do that however such as in the Yale example, obviously take that into account,
Also, wrt another point brought up in there - it’s rare, but some schools do release the middle 50 for both applicants and admitted students, which almost always show the admitted student range higher than the applicant pool. But if you have applicant pool data to assess from, that’s also useful. Then something that I have only come across at UIC - they break down their admitted student profile between test optional and test submitted. For test optional they also mention the average number of AP/IB/hons classes, implying (as that article suggests) that they look more closely at these to gauge an application in the absence of test scores.
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Exactly. The answer is not the same for all schools. Nor all applicants at a given school.
Also agree using admitted student data is helpful, if the school provides that (unfortunately most don’t.)
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It’s going to depend on the school and also the rest of the application – not just the excellent grades, but the rigor, other outside corroborating info (AP scores, awards, loc, etc.)
The blog posted above does a great job of summarizing that because it essentially says that you should submit scores if they strengthen the application.
At many of the uber-selective schools, those scores would not help an otherwise strong application, but at the vast majority of schools, they would probably be good validation of ability and also remove the thought in the AO’s mind that the scores were awful.
The CCs at our school helped make this determined on a school by school basis, probably making an assessment similar to the one in the blog (as all had previously worked in college admissions).
One other possible is to take a stab at the ACT. Many students find that this is an easier test to learn to take and do well on. Because working fast is rewarded, practice can pay off nicely, and good students tend to be good at that kind of practice. Then again, if your D is done with testing altogether, that’s fine!
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This makes sense, but it’s difficult for students (and their parents) to make this judgment on their own, and sadly most students don’t have adequate (or even any) college counseling to help guide this decision, let alone former AOs as their college counselors.
Support the idea of taking the ACT too, but it’s getting late for a rising senior to make the switch.
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