And not all will strengthen the application even though they should be submitted.
A perfect GPA, rigor off the charts, great ECs and more, may be at the median or even above…but for that student, it may not strengthen. It may have them lose some of their “cache” even though they are likely in and they still have a fine score relative to the school.
But still they should submit…
“This makes sense, but it’s difficult for students (and their parents) to make this judgment”
100% agree, and our CCs have commented on how hard this decision can be even for them. The blog above does an excellent job of providing a framework for all of us non-pros to do that, though, and I’m going to guess that it will work pretty well in many cases.
I appreciate everyone’s insight. OP, I’m sorry to hijack your post. If not allowed, I will delete this comment.
Before my son left for camp, he struggled with what to do with his SAT (1420 super scored). Mind you, he scored a 1490 on his PSAT and got NM Commended in our state. He told me he just didn’t have much time to study the Math part (his lowest score).
Anyways, he’s struggling whether to submit his SAT score to 3 reaches (25th - 50th - 75th percentiles)
College A: (1400 - 1480 - 1540) with 46% submitting scores
College B: (1400 - 1470 - 1530) with 45% submitting scores
College C: (1430 - 1470 - 1510) with 19% submitting scores
My son says he will not submit to College C since only 19% submitted scores. But the other two, if 45% submitted scores, he feels that he should submit his just to show he’s above their 25th even if it’s slightly. What do you all think? His schools’ average SAT score is 1030!
His stats for context: 3.9 uw/4.4 w, 11 APs by end of senior year (AP World - 5; APUSH, AP Calc AB, AP Lang, AP Seminar; for senior year AP Gov, AP Stats, AP Lit, AP Research, AP Physics 1, AP Psychology). Marching band all 4 years, section leader for junior, senior year. Kenyon Young Writers Summer Residential Workshop, National Merit Commended Scholar, Writing Editor for school’s LitMag, NHS, Rho Kappa (Soc Studies Honor Society), volunteers at food pantry weekly, various school and band awards, All County/All District Bands - 3 years. I don’t remember what else. He’s looking to major in English/Creative Writing and History (for now). Not interested in STEM.
In general I agree with him - but if he’s white, male, and wealthy and it’s a need blind and wealthy school maybe not.
I leave to the kid but mine would have submitted all 3 because she was proud of her ACT. I think she did apply TO to Rice but that was it - UNC, William & Mary, Emory - because she was proud of it.
She owned it - and that was enough for her.
In this case, I’m doubtful it hurts or helps - but you never know what the school is thinking.
I’d imagine if someone is taking down their # - it better be for a good reason - minority, not affluent, from a state we don’t have, from a major few want, etc. If he’s showing he’s going to be in the school band, that could be another bonus - if they need the instrument he plays.
There’s no way to know.
And if you get in or don’t get in - you won’t know the why.
So if he’s well researched - then you go with his gut and the result. And it sounds like he is.
And I would lean toward the first two as well - validation vs. doubt but if he has no hooks, that could be cause for concern I suppose.
I wouldn’t overthink it though - in reality, it’s likely non impactful to the overall decision either way.
He’s asian, male, and goodness I wish we were wealthy, but in our area we are considered middle class. All 3 schools are need blind, A & B are public in-state schools and C is a private school.
Thank you. I appreciate the insight. My husband thinks I’m overthinking all of this, but I hate that it’s become almost a game! It’s easier if schools just require SATs.
He should submit at all 3 if you’re positive he’s well above the top 25% threshold at his high school.
The colleges in question probably use Landscape
And that would help them see his 1400+ is topnotch. Add male+Humanities, it could be as powerful as a hook at colleges where “middle class” isn’t 80k income but 200k (especially if private and/or with gender imbalance skewing female).
That’s assuming he IS well above the top 25% threshold with his score and that landscape will show a “regular” public HS.
Sure seems that way.
Like everyone, he needs a great place to land. Don’t know your state but chances are there are similar flagships that are less reachy - so he’ll get in. You just need to find one that’s affordable. And there’s definitely less reachy similar privates - no matter the school in most cases – many of which give aid.
As long as the list is buttoned up, then there’s nothing to worry about.
I had no idea about “Landscape.” Thank you for that information! He told me that based on his College Board account, under Score Comparisons, that his school’s 3-year average score is 1030. I’m not sure if his score is well above the top 25% or not so I guess it’s worth checking with his school. Yes, he is at a regular public HS.
College A & B are public, C is private, and yes, gender imbalance skewing towards female mostly.
@tsbna44 - thank you, yes, he has mostly safeties and targets, just those 3 are reachy for him because of his SAT. His GPA at 4.4 puts him at the 50% for College A & B and at almost 75% for College C.
Yes, that’s the challenging part - finding a school where it fits him academically, financially, and socially as well!
I may be mistaken but it seems rare, even these TO days, for a reachy school to have less than 20% submitting test scores. Not sure how much you can look into it, but I’d personally probably think that a large majority of applicants didn’t submit as they were below that and as he is only just below the middle 50, I’d seriously consider submitting.
Also, have you checked his school profile? Ours lists the 25-75 as well as mean test scores.
Oh! I didn’t think about the school profile! Thanks! Yes, it’s very odd for a reachy school to have just 20% submitting test scores. Well it is smaller than the other too at 3,500 students. College A, 17,000; College B at 6,500.
Well reachy to your student may not be reachy to another.
Or you might be misreading the difficulty of getting in.
We all rate schools differently.
If you do a chance me, you’d find out 
Can you help me understand why it matters if he is white? I thought race could no longer be a factor in admissions after the Supreme Court Affirmative Action cases a few years ago. What am I missing?
It’s true - but it still can be used - it just can’t be requested.
Someone can show through an essay or activity…or a school may surmise based on zip code.
Schools are still seeking diversity. They just can’t have it identified via a question.
Three-Minute Legal Talks: Race and Ethnicity in College Applications | UW School of Law
If I told you there was a girl with a specific very Jewish surname from our zip code you’d probably surmise she was white, but you’d be wrong. That can be extended to a number of mixed Asian/white families in our district, many of whom have non-Asian last names. Do you think schools engage in such imprecise behavior in the name of diversity?
How exactly do you think schools do this? Most have at least two AOs look at applications. Do you really think they discuss this?
Maybe essays where it’s more obvious from the types of clubs a student is engaged in…though that is definitely not infallible either.
Do I think they do ? Yes. Do I know if they do? No. Some schools have been accused of marketing to wealthy, white areas - as an example - while skipping less affluent. Colleges are businesses - and businesses target their audience, use different messages for different perceived audiences. But just because I think it doesn’t make it true.
But I think through activities and other things, students can share that. Schools still seek diversity - but it’s tougher for them to do so. And yes, I think it’s discussed. Also, I don’t think most schools have two look at apps. I think some schools do but I think most auto admit kids.
I agree with you - nothing will be perfect - and I’m sure the rules are bent - perhaps unknowingly - or perhaps some are misidentified - I mean, you can be in the LGBTQ club or African American club and be neither.
But as I’m not an adcom, I don’t really know the answer - I’m just thinking logically as I would think an adcom might. After all, we are all human.
Huh?
And you think they sit there saying “this zip code so must be white”? Really?
I think “most” schools admit on stats - have high rates.
You’re talking about more selective schools.
If they’re need aware, they may factor in finances…or not - and then they’ll see your finances.
But I think certain colleges advertise in certain locations - in fact, there’s been stories about that.
Each school has a different goal. Some seek low income. Others say they do but are loaded with the wealthy. You can be assured they are targeting the wealthy.
Colleges are business - they will market to meet their goals.
Many need blind schools have 2/3+ full pay. Schools like Tufts, Wake, USC, WUSTL (until recently), and more - how are they getting such a high percentage of full pay vs. other school? At Colgate, less than 40% even applied for aid.
Marketing, I’d presume (but don’t know), is the how vs. schools that have a significant amount of students who receive aid. These schools are focused on wealthy markets and target their marketing to those areas to meet their financial needs and they, in turn, deliver as schools for the wealthy that they truly are.
That’s my belief anyway - perhaps I’m not right but it’s interesting to me that the schools with the wealthiest clientele typically don’t change. There’s a reason…and I believe it’s messaging.
You talk about diversity but all your “evidence” is about marketing.
If they auto admit on stats they are not looking at diversity.
Time to move on to more productive discussion I think.
Most are auto admit because think of your local, regional types - either high acceptance rates or like the Arizona schools with minimal standards…whether it’s a directional, a regional (black hills state) or any of the small privates clawing for money that are turning down few.
The marketing would be more from the named schools - those seeking wealthy students and even those seeking not wealthy. They likely don’t cross market.
I can’t find the article but there was one about Alabama being accused of targeting wealthy school districts and not the non-wealthy. I think other schools were mentioned too but I can’t find the article.
Here’s some others - and I agree, we can move on.
Elite colleges accused of bias towards wealthy applicants
Elite Colleges Admit to Favoring Wealthy Families | BestColleges
These State Schools Also Favor the One Percent - The Atlantic
Yes, I do think that, at least at many selective colleges (which most schools aren’t.) Maybe not for every applicant, but for building/shaping the class…yes.
Nothing is infallible
To stay on topic, I agree with posters who have said that at some schools (again the relatively more selective ones), there are different test submitting (and scoring) expectations for different groups of students.
Race can’t be a primary or direct factor in admissions. But, race can be taken in context of a student’s lived experience and how that experience might contribute to the diversity of a college’s class during a review of the application. Much of this has been discussed on CC…the only thread we can directly talk about race on CC is here: https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/t/race-in-college-applications-faq-discussion-14/3627043/2215