@Lizardly I’m in San Antonio too and filled up my tank this morning with no problem. As I was driving to a training class at around 2:30pm, I saw cars lining up at several gas stations. When I drove home from the training at around 6:30pm, there were so many cars lined up at each gas station I passed that they created traffic jams. What is usually a 20 minute commute at that time of the day took over an hour. My husband tried to get gas at 8:30pm but the station he visited was out. Not sure what he’s going to do in the morning.
No, I do not believe people really knew what that plant was stockpiling or what’s in many of those plants in Texas.
Gas prices have gone up 30 cents a gallon here (Maryland) in the past three days. Not surprised; it usually ticks upwards for the holiday weekend, but figured the hurricane devastation would slow distribution down the line as well.
Commuters deserve not to live next to a plant that can self-ignite. That’s where the inquiry should begin. How did it happen and how it can be prevented in the future. Building a residential area around the plant (or building a plant within a residential area) and then giving the residents access to the inventory is not a good solution.
Do some digging in your own area. You might be surprised at the number of chemical plants or other hazards there could be be in many localities. Houston is not alone in this.
Texas has been dealt a terrible blow. i doubt any infrastructure can sustain a 50" unprecedented deluge. This will be a long, difficult recovery process. Very sad.
The current Texas governor was AG when he pushed for the non-disclosure law. He claimed the info could be used by terrorists. That seems disingenuous to me - it’s obvious that any of these places could explode if attacked.
And as for housing - many of these plants are along waterways that have been farmed for hundreds of years. Look at “cancer alley” on the Mississippi River. People have lived there for a very long time. Just not people with any strong political clout.
So at what point do we factor in personal accountability? Would you buy a house next to a chemical plant? I wouldn’t. People that build on barrier islands know the risks or at least they should. No one forces people to live in flood pron areas.
DH used to work at DEC in Marlborough, MA where they had a FAB. When we were looking for a place to live there he drew a circle around the plant and not within ex-miles of here because of the chemicals they use. Nice residential area near by but he didn’t want to risk living there. They have never had a problem but just not a risk we were willing to take.
When we moved to Texas we moved to a very large new subdivision, we studied the topography carefully and plans for future growth in the area before we picked a lot. A huge chunk of land was slated for commercial development, we knew this more than 10 years ago and chose not to build in that area of the sub-division. They just broke ground on the commercial parcel and you would not believe the hew and cry on the neighborhood Facebook page about how no one told them this was going to be developed (despite the posted signs saying future commercial area) and they won’t have built here if they had known and how awful it is… It was public record more than a decade ago! Some of the same people are the ones that shut down a very popular out door music venue that was here long before the subdivision was even thought of because it’s weekend concerts were too loud.
*Communities. (thanks autocorrect).
“Do some digging in your own area. You might be surprised at the number of chemical plants or other hazards there could be be in many localities.”
^^Many “hazards” are overblown, but there are real ones. An auto repair or paint shop is not under the same scrutiny as a small biotech company, and yet said shop likely handles flammables in far greater quantities. In my neck of the woods, if you live next to a biotech company, it likely has so many precautions in place (fire zones, special cabinets to keep that acetone safe, mandatory inspections, safety trainings, etc.) that you are much safer than living next to a shop that throws oil-soaked rags in the trash and pours solvents in the open. That said, certain operations do not belong next to residential areas, like that type of a plant. Organic peroxides are nasty, just nasty (seen some combust). The only good news that they burn cleanly without leaving any residue to worry about later.
Trust me - companies and research labs, at least in my neck of the woods, are talking about this plant, and many are looking into how to make their safe operations even safer. Any incident like this does not go unacknowledged.
“When we were looking for a place to live there he drew a circle around the plant and not within ex-miles of here because of the chemicals they use.”
We’ve had issues in New England (and elsewhere) where chemicals have leached into the ground water and affected people many, many miles away. It’s not that easy for the average person to have a sense of where it is safe and where it isn’t and it’s made harder with restricted access to info.
@doschicos DH was worried about the hydrogen cyanide they used same or similar to what was used in the gas chambers at the Nazi death camps. He told me that it smells like almonds but if you smell it it’s already too late.
http://www.luperox.com/en/product-ranges/
Any member of the public that can google can find this information. The question is what the public will do with it…
Another note… Not all organic peroxides are created equal, some are more stable than others. And before anyone starts down the line “OMG they are so toxic”, your kid probably plastered some on his or her face voluntarily. Benzoyl peroxide is an ingredient in acne creams. I would not recommend eating it or bathing in it though.
The Red Cross is opening another shelter here in San Antonio and is expecting an additional 2,000 evacuees from coastal cities to arrive tonight. I just completed food safety training and signed up for two shifts this weekend to help prepare meals at the shelters. Over 10,000 people have signed up as Red Cross volunteers in San Antonio. So many that their online training system has crashed!
This is somewhat decent explanation of what the chemicals are and the dangers involved:
It’s not just the nasty chemicals from places that you expect, a very extended family member owns a nursery (the plant kind not the baby kind) in Greenwich, CT the family has run the business since at least the 1950’s, likely much earlier than that but that was before my time, it was once very rural and is now sunburn. It’s very valuable land and the heirs want to sell but the soil is so polluted with decades upon decades of chemical fertilizers and oil leaking from farm equipment that they can not pass the soil quality tests required for sale. The heirs don’t have the money for the costly remediation required for sale so they have no choice but to continue to run a family business that no one really wants or just hold on to the land and pass it off to the next generation.
Texas has also passed a state law banning bans. The law effectively bans local cities, counties, etc from banning oil/gas/fracking activities. Google Texas HB40 for details.
I am buying a lock for my bike and plan on walking and cycling around until this gas issue gets resolved. The fact that it is Labor Day weekend and people want to drive to vacations doesn’t help.
- In recent years the feds mandated a new and extremely comprehensive set of rules for registration and classifying commercial and governmental stocks of chemicals. As I understand it, the precise purpose was to a) protect workers, and b) identify and secure dangerous chemicals that could be "misused" by hostile actors. The chief safety officer at my company was quite insistent that our the company promptly and thoroughly comply with the new rules, otherwise the company could be subject to significant fines and company officials held personally liable (i.e. possible jail time!)
- Gas in our area just shot up 30 cents in two days time.
In many cases the people living closest to chemical plants are poor. They don’t always have the luxury of choosing to live elsewhere.
Ah yes…environmental discrimination. I haven’t heard that term in a long time. First heard about it when low-income rural African-American communities complained about the ill effects of those giant waste ponds at factory hog farms run by the Tyson company.
I don’t particularly like it when gas prices go up quickly. But I have learned I would rather endure that than have no gas at all. On the other hand, I have a home, able legs, and a bicycle. Lot of folks in SE Texas would kill to be in my shoes.