The advantages of a Private High School in Selective College Admissions

Parents Forum
121

<p>The first year that NYS instituted testing for 4th graders many of the local elementary schools volunteered their students to take the tests too. When the results came back the students in the parochial and private schools with only a few exceptions did no better than the public school students. That was the last year the private schools participated.</p>

<p>Private schools come in all sorts of flavors, but I think many people simply don’t realize how good some of our public schools can be.</p>

122

<p>The college based their decisions of prior experience, not any kind of hunch or feelings. If they have had students from certain school (private or public), they will take it into consideration admitting applicants from this school. How many schools out there had Harvard rep. coming to their premises to promote Harvard? D’s school have them and we are very far from Harvard. It explains that couple top kids out of small class of 30-50 senior usually get accepted to the very top schools if they apply.</p>

123

<p>

I thought so, too. Really tells a lot about a person!</p>

124

<p>I think there is an advantage in college admissions for those who attend private schools. The fact is, in most of the strong private schools, there are far more services available in terms of college counseling. Often, college counselors have actually travelled to top colleges, made contact with admission officers, etc. They can advise their students better, there are more of them for fewer students and they guide them carefully through the process. In contrast, many public school kids, even the strongest ones, have to figure things out pretty much on their own – no one is going to discuss with them whether the ACT or SAT is better for them and the college counselor, serving thousands, is not going to be able to make personal phone calls to admissions officers advocating for a particular student. He or she will have less time to fill out recommendation forms because there are so many, etc. In addition, private schools can provide the extras that look good on an application – for example, my niece had eight periods of classes in her private school while my son had six in his public school. That was two more enriching classes she had each semester and there were just a lot more ECs on campus. </p>

<p>My kids worked very hard in high school. Most of the top students at our high school find themselves very well prepared for college. My son has had an easy transition to a top LAC. My daughter did feel the playing field was a bit uneven at first at Yale, not because she hadn’t worked hard, but because she was in a program where many of the kids from prep schools had read the works in high school, which gave them an edge. Her public school was locked in to set textbooks, etc. and didn’t have that kind of academic freedom. She did extremely well there, but felt that the kids who attended the most elite prep schools simply had a stronger academic background - and I am not including all private schools – just the really elite ones. There is obviously a great range in the quality of private schools just as there is in public schools. </p>

<p>A public school is just not going to be able to compete with Philips Exeter – they don’t have the funds. But kids can work very hard in public school and they can do very well at elite colleges after attending public high schools.</p>

125

<p>^^^Very few schools can compare to the likes of Exeter/Andover/St. Paul’s School.</p>

<p>These elites make most college facilities look inadequate</p>

126

<p>If this has already been specified, you can ignore. Counseling has been mentioned, particularly relative to college admissions, but one of our most high-performing public schools locally (very expensive zipcode and all) suffered not only in the college aspect of that, but in class placement. When the guidance counselor must approve (or must guide toward) AP placement, but is absent for a critical time period or doing double-duty in another role, it leaves a rising junior in the lurch. Different availabilities of counselors at the same school can result in a great deal of inequity, as to things like opportunities for classes, which are crucial to admissions results. </p>

<p>I really felt for our friends in this public. The school did not lack for funds, as publics go, but even then it fell short of what could be called a generously staffed school, such as the ratios experienced at privates.</p>

127

<p>

</p>

<p>i went to exeter and so did my siblings, and it does help immensely with preparation for college, but i don’t know if it necessarily gives you a leg up in admissions bc you are competing against all the other stellar kids in your exeter class. 90% of them would probably be valedictorians if they went to their local public school. </p>

<p>in my year, 100 qualified kids applied to harvard and 70 to stanford, and there’s no way either of those schools is going to take nearly that many. of course, it’s impossible to know if the kids who were not admitted would’ve been if they stayed at home.</p>

128

<p>Good point about guidance counseling. Some years ago, we had a guidance counselor at our school who really hurt a lot of kids by not making sure they had the right classes for state university requirements. She approved their schedules, told them they were fine and then they were devastated when they realized that they weren’t. My DD had this counselor. She told me a few times that having me for a mother had a lot to do with why she got into the colleges she did, because her guidance counselor never would have given her the right advice. Fortunately, that guidance counselor was the exception and is no longer there, but damage was done to a number of young people.</p>

129

<p>Best way to get into the best private high school, get accepted into pre-school.
[The</a> Way Things Work: Lab Schooladmissions - The Chicago Maroon](<a href=“Delays keep Proof from silver screen – Chicago Maroon”>Delays keep Proof from silver screen – Chicago Maroon)</p>

<p>This is the school the Obama children attended.</p>

130

<p>Guess he wasn’t supporting the public option that time.</p>

131

<p>The operative word is “option.”</p>

132

<p>It’s very possible that people can fall through the cracks without the right counselor or teacher relationships, and privates do have lower staff-student ratios, so that can be good for private students.</p>

<p>But just to point out something about once the kids get in…</p>

<p>I have a girlfriend who attended an IVY and knows an IVY admissions person well. The admissions woman said that both private and public schools can produce top students, but once they get there, the candidates from the top public schools are often seen to be better prepared for college than the candidates from some of the top private schools. Both sides can do equally well in the end if they try, of course, but she felt that the attitude coming in was different because the private candidates are used to a lot of hand-holding and coddling, while the public kids got there on their own initiative much of the time, often coming from larger schools where they achieved a high standard without small teacher ratio or close relationships with counselors.</p>

<p>The privates’ numbers can seem skewed since they have already weeded out all but the top students, so from the numbers it can seem that they have “better” prepared their kids. Overall, she felt private kids expected certain things because of their private school background, and she respected the public school kids’ work ethic and felt they are prepared to be more independent in college.</p>

133

<p>^Well that blatant generalization fits absolutely nobody at my d’s private school. I would hardly describe it as ‘coddling’ and ‘hand-holding.’ The rigor of the courses – in terms of the expectation of work product, the expectation of performance independently achieved, and to a high standard, is in a different galaxy than approximately 90% of the publics in my region, whose graduates mostly report that their work at Reach U’s–public & private–greatly exceeds what they were required to do in high school, whereas those graduating from academically rigorous privates (not just any private), with difficult grading scales, were effectively “over-prepared” vs. college classmates from publics.</p>

<p>Again, I’m thrilled if some public schools are insisting on high output, high standards. I don’t doubt that some in my region and some in my state do exactly that – judging not just my college acceptances, but by performance in those colleges. But certainly the elite private high schools are not producing protected students. Far from it.</p>

134

<p>JHS:

If your child is going to be one of the top 3 students at any competitive private or public school then you should not care but if your child is going to be out of top 5 then private school will help you a lot.</p>

<p>DD private school beats hands down in terms of absolute number of students matriculating to the most selective school. In % there is no comparison as the DD private school is almost 1/4th size of the top public in the area.</p>

135

<p>I have two kids and between them, we covered private school experience (till the 8th grade), regular suburban high school experience, and top public magnet high school experience. </p>

<p>My employment contract included full private tuition for both of my kids (expense grossed up for tax). As such, $$$ was not an issue. Yet, for both kids, we chose public schools.</p>

<p>S1 went to a regional public magnet school rated by USNWR to be one of the top 5 in the nation. It’s a science/math/high tech school with 60+ kids/year. In terms of the quality of the education, this school was hands down the best available - much better than any private school in the area. </p>

<p>You guessed the usual benefits: very small classes, outstanding teachers, stellar admissions records (30-40% make it to top 20ish universities/colleges). However, what I liked most about this school is the kids themselves. It’s a tippy top high school where kids are admitted solely based on THEIR OWN MERIT, not because of their parents’ resources and connections (admission is based on test scores and GPA, that’s it!). </p>

<p>If we had to choose a private school with this quality of education and the facilities available, the kids would have been mostly from upper class background (other than the scholarship cases). I hear stories from my acquaintances about their kids in spiffy local private schools: the designer clothes, the status symbol, the subtle and not so subtle class distinction, a sense of entitlements, etc. </p>

<p>None of that in S1’s high school. I suspect the socio economic level of his peers is above average in the country (kids’ academic performance does correlate with the parent’s socio economic status). However, the general values/atmosphere shared among the students seems to be decidedly middle class. No spoiled trust fund baby type what so ever. Well off parents are all professional types (Ph.Ds and MDs) Even the kids from very wealthy households seem to keep it very, very low profile. It’s considered definitely very gauche to flaunt the family’s wealth and status. S1’s friends are top students even in that school, and they are really NICE kids with very wholesome outlook on life - the kind of kids you would love to have around simply because they are such wholesome kids with healthy value system. </p>

<p>To me, this is VERY important. I wanted my kids to be in an environment that is consistent with my value system. I would hate the idea of sending my kids where materialism and a sense of entitlement are prevalent. </p>

<p>S2 is a very different kid from his brother. For him, the magnet school would have been a very poor fit. We briefly considered a couple of local private schools, but after one too many stories about kids bringing designer backpacks costing $1000 and subtle and not so subtle status symbol brouhaha among both students AND parents, we settled on a local public school. S2 is a very down to earth kid, and he wants to join the armed forces (if he were to come a blue color household, he would be the kid enlisting straight out of high school). He does not like snooty “rich kid” types and their cliques. </p>

<p>He is a junior now, and I can DEFINITELY see that in terms of the quality of the education and college counseling and help, any private school is probably better than his school, though we live in a very high income zip code town. However, we knew about this going in, and I am compensating for any lack of sophisticated college admission related counseling he could have gotten in a private high school. </p>

<p>During last 12 months or so, I learned everything there is to know about college admission process and ROTC scholarship application process. I feel, by now, I finally cracked the code. I was able to intervene when S2 was not allowed to take junior AP classes with a very satisfactory outcome, and I am already in “cahoot” with one of the guidance counselors well in advance to help S2 be positioned as best as he can be for the optimal combination of the best ROTC unit and the best fit university that will prepare him the best for his currently stated future ambition. Given my son’s interest in joining armed forces through a ROTC route, I can’t imagine a guidance counselor in any private high school knowing more about this subject than I (it took me months of leg work and research to finally figure out how to “game the system” to secure ROTC scholarship in the best battalion). I actually enjoy this. It’s a labor of love. I want to be the one who counsels my kids, rather than leaving up to the schools and private counselors. We butt heads, and yes, there is tension at times, but this is a bonding experience. </p>

<p>Moral of the story? I believe the high school experience should NOT be solely judged by the college admission outcome. Furthermore, whatever advantage the college admission related guidance counseling private schools provides can be largely simulated by involved parents who are willing to do the leg work and do thorough research.</p>

136

<p>Hyeonjlee: Different strokes for different folks, I guess. The reverse is true in our area: The public schools with your demographics are filled with flaunted materialism and outsized senses of entitlement. The private schools are the ones where wealth and status are downplayed. </p>

<p>Furthermore, nobody at our private school believes having great college counseling relieves the parents from being involved. Our GC has contacts with the adcoms, goes to conferences not open to me even as an “involved parent,” has institutional history of our school’s kids performance that is far more nuanced than can be derived from a Naviance scattergram, and can offer counsel based on seeing my kid from a different perspective than I have. None of that can be replaced by my own legwork. </p>

<p>Obviously anyone can get into college without any counseling help at all given enough time and motivation. That doesn’t mean having a great college counselor doesn’t make the process easier and more efficient.</p>

137

<p>

</p>

<p>We live near one of those prep schools mentioned in the NY Times as being a top feeder school to the Ivys. I remember talking to one grad who went to Princeton. She felt the chemistry lab facilities at Princeton were far inferior to her prep school.</p>

138

<p>I’m reading this thread with interest, but I don’t know why, since all I can think of is the many threads over the 2+ yrs I have read on CC that can only be described as “competitive thriftiness” in order to provide their offspring a HYP or tip top LAC education. Decrepit kitchens, old roofs, few dinners out, 10 yr+ cars, no vacations, old clothes and most recently, who spent the least on their simple but superior wedding. This is so prevalent that I began to ponder before my son applied to U. how interesting it will be in 10-15 yrs to see how an “elite” education will contribute to a students success, monetary success of course, since that is really what is at the basis of this go around. Judging from these posts, the elite schools are now filled with these very same families, some first generation college students, URM and a few, very few, Public mostly under prepared kids. The wealthy and influential families are increasingly NOT attending these schools- for the various reasons discussed in past post to this thread. History, spanning many generations, demonstrates time and time again, where the wealthy and influential move, so does the prestige. And with Facebook, this generation has a powerful networking tool that should serve them well when “connections” count. So the question is, will elite schools be as in demand when their prestige dwindles and the wealthy and influential send their offspring to lower ranked schools for undergrad? Stay tuned, it should be very interesting, the shift is already taking place. Just something to think about.</p>

139

<p>Those top schools will become even more prestigious as time goes on due to increase of applicants. With elites, it’s still their goal to send their kids to top schools. The haves would just need to pay more to get their kids in. Networking through FB or any other networking tools will not replace networking where it truly matters (connections only works if both parties have something to offer). D1 has over 1500 “friends” on FB, but there’ll only be a few dozen people who would truly have any pull with her someday.</p>

140

<p>Increased applications will not lend more prestige- WHO applies and attends is what makes the connections and the relationships matter. You are right, both people have to have something to offer, but that is the point. Harvard for one, has had many articles written about the two distinct classes of students who attend. The wealthy kids don’t have to work, during the year or summers, they have connections to get the “best” non-paid internships, and when they are on break, they tend to go to each others very exclusive vacation home of their parents, Grandparents or other family member, or to all of them over the course of the year. Those invitations have to go both ways or you are a hanger on. Gotta be able to pay to play. Financial aide isn’t going to even this out aspect; of course there are exceptions but not many. </p>

<p>I think your D having two dozen connections that matter on Facebook is significant. How many can be really significant beyond this point. Again, times are changing, the nature of jobs are changing and so are the demographics of the elite colleges.</p>