The African-American Elite

Parent Cafe
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<p>Hi, fellow educated black-Americans. For those of you who aren’t familiar with the book Our Kind Of People by Lawrence Graham it potrays the lives of the upper class black families that basically lead their lives completely out of public eye. Similarly to the parallel white “high society” many of the activities conducted by the black upper class are considered elitist by middle and lower class blacks, and remain unknown to white American’s. The book talks about the Divine Nine: particularly the oldest most coveted five(Alphas, Omegas, Kappas, AKAs and Deltas), The Boule, Links, Jack and Jill of American, Girl Friends, Spelman, Howard, Morehouse, Camp Atwater(oldest historically black summer camp that is very costly ie. $750 per week), and the black summer enclaves such as Sag Harbor and Oak Bluffs. It also places strong emphasize on participating in the “right” debutante cotillion: with the most acceptable ones being Delta’s, Link’s, and AKA’s. Now, I was wondering what other educated black Americans think about this book. I myself plan to attend Spelman College, I currently attend prep school, have a mother who is an AKA, hope to also be an AKA, am participating in a AKA debtante cotillion, my great grandmother was the first black woman to attend Roosevelt University in Chicago, my grandfather was the first black council man in my state etc, but this book is quite controversial. Especially now that the author is putting out a Black American Social Register that will feature the 800 most prominent black families in America. It will feature politicians, socialites, lawyers, doctors, CEOs etc. It however will not feature actors, basketball and football players, etc. I believe it is good that there will finally be something in large capacity that shows blacks in a positive image other than them being movie stars. The controversy is that not only do you have to be well educated by the top hbcu’s or ivy league(better yet both), but you have to come from the right family, marry into the right family, summer in the right location, and even have the right look, while belonging to the correct social clubs. So it is extremely similar to the “white” social register listing people such as the Kennedy’s and Vanderbilts. Many people of the black upper class have been calling him a wannabe and are angry that their lives are going to be out for public display. Many lower class blacks feel this is a disgrace to publish something so elitist.</p>

<p>I take the stance that it will be positive for people to realize that yes there are many successful black families. I think the author may have other motives, and that such a book should only be published by a committee that is qualified. Not a man who claims he belongs to the class. So do you all think that such a publication will be a positive contribution to the black upper class, and blacks in general? Or do you think it will be a negative that will further divide blacks considered upper class and those considered lower class?</p>

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<p>The categorical exclusion of all actors and athletes seems strange to me.</p>

<p>If someone is making such a list, then I’m only surprised that the listing excludes such actors as Denzel Washington (Fordham U graduate) or Dr. William Cosby (Morehouse) with academic pedigree, or others such as Sidney Poitier or Harry Belafonte without formal education but whose charitable organization work is reknown. </p>

<p>And do they really want to strip away such leaders as pro football and basketball players who attended UCLA or USC? No Magic Johnson? </p>

<p>What about Tiger Woods or the current champions of women’s tennis…?</p>

<p>And musicians – Wynton Marsalis, for example?</p>

<p>I think they may deserve some honorable mention before a few politicians and CEO’s. </p>

<p>But of course, I’m not making any lists, nor would I be included on any blue-blood lists myself. I am speaking from waaaay out in the margins here :)</p>

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<p>I read the book, twice. I am amazed that he, (the author), is putting together a list now. Success is more than what you can afford. Money does not define who you are. I strive everyday to be a better person, and to raise a child whose total focus is not materialism.</p>

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<p>Why don’t we also resurrect the “paper bag test” for inclusion into the above mentioned sororities while we’re celebrating divisive elitism within the black community…?:rolleyes:</p>

<p>God, I think I’m going to be sick…:(</p>

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<p>Poet, you lost me on this one. Could you explain further?</p>

<p>I am thinking that if it is good for blacks to celebrate Obama as a positive role model, etc. isn’t is good to celebrate other positive role models? How would that be divisive?</p>

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<p>As far as not including actors, athletes etc. they aren’t being including because those are not considered the “high society” blacks. Or the black version of the “ole boys club.” They are the famous. It is a completely different lifestyle. The black “high society” is just as much about “who your daddy is” as it is about how much money you donate to society. UCLA and USC aren’t exactly on this authors list of the upper class schools. Like I stated exceptable schools= Morehouse, Spelman, Howard, and the Ivy League. This isn’t about the famous this is about the wealthy old money black families in society. It’s a completely different world. P Diddy, whatever name he is going by now, attempted to get his son into Jack & Jill but they denied him because he wasn’t “classy” enough. While I agree that money isn’t everything. I don’t think the author believes money is everything.The people in these organizations truly value education first and many such as the AKA debutante cotillion give out college scholarships. Many people find debutante balls elitist but hey free money for college and I’m there.</p>

<p>Poetsheart: I agree and disagree with you. Blacks are always talked about in a negative light. You always see how most black children are born to unwed mothers(that was recently on the front page of my cities newspaper), and how black on black crime is rapid, but you never hear about the successful blacks unless they play ball or act. Therefore you have generations of children who all want to be in the NBA and NFL. Once they realize that very few make it they resort to things such as drug dealing and prostitution. It makes me sad that black males are more likely to end of in jail than in college. So I feel that a book that lists the most prominent blacks could show society that yes we do exist. It gives kids a realization that they can be a CEO, doctor, attorney etc. At the same time I feel the wrong person is writing it. I feel Lawrence has some personal insecurities. He actually isn’t all that much against the paper bag test or the ruler test, which I find very disturbing. He himself had a nose job to remove “negroid” features. I don’t think he truly represents an upper class black person, but better represented a completely assimilated buppie. There is a BIG difference. This is why I believe this book would be more successful if written by black American’s who have more credibility. I believe the way Lawrence writes it is more going to appeal to social climbing gold diggers than prominant families looking to show their children good examples of successful blacks and showing society in general the existance of very successful blacks. This is usually a pretty hush hush world and I like the way he brings it to light, but I believe he does it wrong. Many people are unaware that some of these families date back to the early 1800s. I was actually reading something by a white author, and he was discussing that the reason you never hear about a black “high society” class is because one doesn’t exist. This implies all blacks are middle or lower class. He is clearly wrong and the class definitely exist with its on clear social laws, clubs, etc. It remains highly unpublicized. Leaving our younger children in school only to learn about slavery leaving out our ancestors who were at the same time as horrible segregation vacationing at Oak Bluffs on Martha’s Vineyard, forming their own secret societies, and building our own top schools. I believe younger generations need to know this. Not just that most blacks were treated badly and lived poor. If I asked my great-grandma on my dad’s side about segregation she will literally say I didn’t really experience it. Her family joined black groups, sent kids to integrated private schools, and befriended other wealthy black families. My mothers side was the opposite. They’d be more likely to talk about the horrible experiences. Even my mom in the 70’s was told she was sitting on the white side of a restaurant. I think both worlds need to be better represented, yet Lawrence Graham is too pretentious to be the one to bring the black upper class to light.</p>

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<p>I think the books appeal will be to too few people to make a big impact. I think a book with a more philanthropic goal will be more likely to achieve what you are hoping for.</p>

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<p>Talk about a broad reaching, and gross generalization.:rolleyes: Not all black youth aspire to the NBA or the NFL, and not all of the ones who do, but fail to achieve that goal, resort to drug dealing and prostitution—not even most! There’s a sizable black middle class (low end to upper end), virtually none of whom engage in any such activity. And not even the majority of poor blacks engage in drug dealing and prostitution. If it were so, there wouldn’t be enough prison space in the country to handle the demand. I hate it when even our own people buy into the stereotypes.</p>

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<p>". Now, I was wondering what other educated black Americans think about this book. "</p>

<p>I have read both of his books and think they reveal a very superficial perspective about what’s important in life.</p>

<p>The black social register also sounds silly to me. I don’t care whether a person is in a sorority, came out in a cotillion or had an ancestor who did exemplary things. What I care about is what kind of nonmaterialistic values a person has including how compassionate and ethical they are.</p>

<p>We don’t need a black social register or other similar books to show black kids that they can be CEOs, etc. Heck, we’ve got a black Ivy educated man who’s the prospective Democratic nominee for president.</p>

<p>For the record, I’m Ivy League educated, was the fourth gen in my family to go to college, and am a Delta. I suppose I could qualify for the social register, but have no desire to be in it or any other social register. There are many more important things to aspire to. I don’t need to prove to anyone that black people are capable of making admirable accomplishments. Anyone who can’t figure that out in today’s society is a nitwit who isn’t worth my time.</p>

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<p>Amen. And I don’t need further proof that black people can be as superficially elitist, and condescending toward their own kind (something I’ve seen close up and personal), as the white elite is often disposed to be toward the world at large.:rolleyes:</p>

<p>As a point of interest, Dick Parsons, former CEO of Time Warner, Inc., is a cousin of mine. He could easily make any social register in the country, but he’s one of the most “real”, most down to earth people you’d ever want to meet. If he could read it, he’d second my, “Amen” to Northstarmom’s post.</p>

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<p>Musicians: I’m not talking about P Diddy, I’m talking about Wynton Marsalis, Jr. the Julliard graduate now doing amazing work relative to Katrina and the preservation of the history of music in New Orleans. Wouldn’t the above-mentioned list overlook him because his life work is as a performing artist (jazz musician) rather than as a CEO or lawyer?? Seems a bit off. </p>

<p>[Biography</a> - Wynton Marsalis official web site](<a href=“http://www.wyntonmarsalis.org/biography/]Biography”>http://www.wyntonmarsalis.org/biography/)</p>

<p>No matter. More important to me than my own opinion (that such a list should include college-educated artists and athletes) are the opinions of Northstarmom and Poetsheart that such a Social Register isn’t necessary or helpful in the first place.</p>

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<p>Just as a suggestion to the OP, I would consider changing your userid and location to something more generic. From what I have heard and read from my NPHC friends, their memberships do not look too kindly on women who assume they will be an XYZ no matter how connected they are as legacies. The fact that you want to go to Spelman, want to be an AKA, you are an AKA legacy AND you are from Indiana is going to make it very easy for them to guess your identity. Read the AKA/DST forums on greekchat.com. You will see what I mean.</p>

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<p>Poetsheart wrote: “Why don’t we also resurrect the “paper bag test” for inclusion into the above mentioned sororities while we’re celebrating divisive elitism within the black community…?”</p>

<p>For those who haven’t heard, “elite” students who threw parties at historically black colleges used to put paperbags on the door handle of the party setting. Students darker than the paper bag weren’t allowed in. Sadly, I have read that this still goes on sometimes and reflects the disdain that some black “elites” have for black people who have traditional African features and complexions.</p>

<p>Lawrence Otis Graham has a chapter in one of his books in which he describes having a nose job to make his nose thinner. Not a person whose opinions I am interested in when it comes to what kind of black people to be impressed by.</p>

<p>The OP wrote: “Many people are unaware that some of these [elite black] families date back to the early 1800s. I was actually reading something by a white author, and he was discussing that the reason you never hear about a black “high society” class is because one doesn’t exist.”</p>

<p>The white author was an idiot, why refer to him? Meanwhile, most people including me don’t care about high society regardless of the races of its members.</p>

<p>OP, judging by the name that you’ve given yourself here on CC and the topic you’ve posted, I would guess that you’re impressed by the type of people in the book and that you yourself aspire to be included in something like that. Why?</p>

<p>What about their lives do you find so admirable? What they’ve done is basically an accident of birth.</p>

<p>I have friends who I am very sure qualify for the list. I myself may qualify. However, the things that the book celebrates aren’t what I admire. </p>

<p>The people whom I admire are those who make a positive difference in the world whether regardless of their race or social standing. </p>

<p>The OP wrote: “Blacks are always talked about in a negative light. You always see how most black children are born to unwed mothers(that was recently on the front page of my cities newspaper), and how black on black crime is rapid, but you never hear about the successful blacks unless they play ball or act. Therefore you have generations of children who all want to be in the NBA and NFL. Once they realize that very few make it they resort to things such as drug dealing and prostitution. It makes me sad that black males are more likely to end of in jail than in college. So I feel that a book that lists the most prominent blacks could show society that yes we do exist. It gives kids a realization that they can be a CEO, doctor, attorney etc.”</p>

<p>Those black kids aren’t going to read the book and aren’t going to care about the people in the book. If you want to make a difference in those kids lives, then become active in an organization like Big Sisters or do other major community service while you’re in college.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, there have never been in history so many African Americans who are college educated, middle class, and successful in a variety of professions. Never before has there been so much publicity about black people who are economically successful.</p>

<p>Blacks are not “always talked about in a negative light.” Such a statement is so incorrect as to be ludicrous.</p>

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<p>Renowned sociologist E. Franklin Frazier’s “Black Bourgeoisie” is the classic about the black middle/upper class.</p>

<p>From Barnes &Nobles review:</p>

<p>“When it was first published in 1957, Black Bourgeoisie was simultaneously revered and reviled because it cast a critical eye on one of the cornerstones of the black American community—its middle class. In the 1950s, before the recent burgeoning of the black middle class, Frazier identified the problems that occur in the aftermath of “black-flight” from the inner cities and black communities of the rural South. The book’s relevance has only increased as over the years the divide between increasingly prosperous middle-class blacks and their increasingly desperate “underclass” brethren has grown into an almost uncrossable chasm.
By tracing the evolution of the black bourgeoisie, from the segregated South to the integrated North, Frazier shows how the blacks who comprised the middle class have lost their cohesion by moving out of black communities and attempting to integrate white communities. The result of this integration “is an anomalous bourgeois class with no identity, built on self-sustaining myths of black business and society, silently undermined by a collective, debilitating inferiority complex.” Frazier hoped to dispel the image of blacks as having thrown off the psychological and economical ravages of slavery to become economically powerful, because according to Frazier, it was a lie that was damaging the community.
Frazier, chairman of the Department of Sociology at Howard University and president of the International Society for the Scientific Study of Race Relations, hoped that Black Bourgeoisie would impel blacks to make changes that would empower their community. For the most part, those hoped-for changes have not occurred. Nevertheless, today, as many black people are calling into question the very existence and relevance of an autonomous “black community,” his book offers a fascinating perspective on the costs of that community’s dissolution.”</p>

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<p>Not black, and not part of any high society, but I’ll weigh in anyway. I gather that although this book covers many very accomplished black Americans, the criteria for inclusion have more to do with family background and other superficial matters than accomplishment. I don’t think this is useful, and I consider black societies that exclude other blacks based on appearance or the perceived class of the family (excluding a child because his father is considered “low-class” is cruel) just as bad as exclusive white societies.</p>

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<p>Personally I think that any book – or movement – that shows successful, intellectually-accomplished AA is a good thing. White Americans in general know very little about the AA community, and most of what they do know is based on movies and music. And we all know how accurate that is.</p>

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<p>White/pink person here (I despise the term “of color”, as in white and lumping everyone else together regardless of their vast differences). Good to have a book about black high society- can be used as proof when people question its existence. No better/worse than WASP high society, and just as relevent to the rest of us. I first heard of the Jack and Jill clubs in a tv special. I had previously been exposed to many of the other lifestyles of African Americans and with even WASP high society off my radar, hadn’t realized there were other such socially elite groups. Being a social egalitarian I give them as much respect as I do any other group like them. For those of us who don’t live in areas with large black populations our source of awareness is the media. It is good to have coverage of all variations of societies, not just the ones that make the everyday news. It reinforces the notion that all people are alike, including the desire for snobbishness. This book addresses the one facet of being black that most Americans are unaware of, it does the job of completing the list of ways to be black. </p>

<p>Sorry if this doesn’t sound right, I’ve spent a lot of time trying to write this post and will let it stand with all of its imperfections. The post above mine said it better and more succinctly.</p>

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<p>“Talk about a broad reaching, and gross generalization. Not all black youth aspire to the NBA or the NFL, and not all of the ones who do, but fail to achieve that goal, resort to drug dealing and prostitution—”
Ok I’m obviously not talking about ALL blacks or even a large majority. But I have read too many stories such as this: [A</a> Drug Dealer’s Rapid Rise and Ugly Fall - New York Times](<a href=“http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C04E6D71F38F933A2575AC0A962958260]A”>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C04E6D71F38F933A2575AC0A962958260) and this: [Prostitution</a> Research & Education Website](<a href=“http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/raciscm/000015.html]Prostitution”>http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/raciscm/000015.html) The footnotes in the second article are more helpful than the actual article for brief reading. </p>

<p>“If it were so, there wouldn’t be enough prison space in the country to handle the demand.”
Article proving that yes we can’t handle the demand. <a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/24/us/24calif.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/24/us/24calif.html&lt;/a&gt;
Excerpt “Some facilities are at 210 percent of their designed capacity.”
I just picked one state because I couldn’t find an overall article, yet found most for individual states.</p>

<p>“I suppose I could qualify for the social register, but have no desire to be in it or any other social register.”
Well sorry to tell you this, but if you do indeed qualify you’d be in it. So if you really do qualify and weren’t just stating this look out your name may be listed. The author has been getting calls from qualifying families begging not to be listed, but I guess there isn’t any law against unwillfully mentioning people in a book. For example a mayor didn’t want to be listed because he was mayor of a majority black city that my not take well to him being seen as elitist, but Graham doesn’t really care.</p>

<p>“As a point of interest, Dick Parsons, former CEO of Time Warner, Inc., is a cousin of mine. He could easily make any social register in the country, but he’s one of the most “real”, most down to earth people you’d ever want to meet.”</p>

<p>Well, he’ll probably be listed rather aware or not. Many people being listed are down to earth…again…you don’t have a choice about being listed.</p>

<p>“I’m talking about Wynton Marsalis, Jr. the Julliard graduate now doing amazing work relative to Katrina and the preservation of the history of music in New Orleans. Wouldn’t the above-mentioned list overlook him because his life work is as a performing artist (jazz musician) rather than as a CEO or lawyer?? Seems a bit off.”</p>

<p>Gosh people. I’m not writing this book. lol. In fact I don’t even agree with how he’s going about this. I think Graham is a very confused man regarding his identity. I’m not sure how he’d handle a jazz musician though. Another requirement is that you must be a millionaire or billionaire. So since a jazz musician isn’t really considered main stream Hollywood type I suppose he’d have a better chance than someone like Will Smith. I’m not Graham though so I’m not sure how HE’D label a celebrity such as him. I’m guessing he’d go through the same who are your relatives and what clubs is your family a part of as everybody else.</p>

<p>“OP, judging by the name that you’ve given yourself here on CC and the topic you’ve posted, I would guess that you’re impressed by the type of people in the book and that you yourself aspire to be included in something like that. Why?” </p>

<p>On the contrary, I’m not at all impressed with people such as Graham. I am however impressed with successful black americans. By successful I’m not referring to the same sense of successful as Graham does. My idea of the black upperclass would be those who are successful. To me it doesn’t matter where you came from, but where you are going. I know both of my parents, but grew up with only one of them. I’ve worked hard to get where I am currently but to Graham that wouldn’t matter because I only have “correct” lineage on one side of my family. That was my point of listing my accomplishments. Debutante yes. AKA legacy yes. Jack and Jill. No. Links mother. No. Those require nominations, and my mom like I previously mentioned doesn’t come from the right family to recieve nominations. She was raised in a 2 bedroom house with 6 people. My father however is the one who was raised like Graham prefers. So in a sense I’m torn between the two worlds. I posted the topic because a friend of mine, who happened to be white, read the book. She was taking an african american history class and reading the book was a final project. She said that some of the things in the book sounded like things I’ve participated in and a couple of friends of mine as well. So I read it.While I find nothing wrong with many of the organizations I found alot wrong with Grahams mindset. The darkskin lightskin battle should have long been over along with the ruler test. It’s dumb and doesn’t show any level of merit. As far as my username…it is just a name. I had it before i’d even heard of this book. I want to attend spelman because of the tradition, and opprotunities, and I even like that it is all female. Less distractions…well at least the distractions will be across the street at morehouse. I can’t focus well with cute guys around me.lol. As far as AKA…yeah I want to pledge big deal. The people who do these things and the people listed aren’t the ones with issues imo it is just Graham. They don’t want to be listed…for the most part…he’s doing it anyways.</p>

<p>Blacks are not “always talked about in a negative light.” Such a statement is so incorrect as to be ludicrous.</p>

<p>Maybe not where you are from, but we aren’t from the same place…so that is my subjective opinion…just like the above is yours. </p>

<p>PEOPLE KEEP IN MIND I DON’T AGREE WITH GRAHAM. I DO BELIEVE THAT IF SOMEEONE WANTED TO WRITE THIS IT SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN HIM AND IT SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN BASED THE WAY HE BASED IT. EDUCATION AND CAREER SHOULD COME INTO ACCOUNT. BUT WHERE YOU CAME FROM DOESN’T MATTER. NEITHER DOES THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN OR TEXTURE OF YOUR HAIR. IF YOU ARE SO MAD ABOUT THE BOOK OR WHATEVER…WRITE IT TO THE AUTHOR…OR AT LEAST WRITE ABOUT WHAT THE HE COULD HAVE DONE. I DIDN’T WRITE THE BOOK YOU ALL SEEM TO BE FORGETTING THAT.</p>

<p>I do however appreciate the opinions they seem to be the general opinion he’s getting about this new book, which makes me wonder who’d buy it. Who really wants a book with a list of names. Seems kind of pointless.</p>

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<p>wis75: your comment was fine. I understand what you are saying. While no one wants to admit that their race has snobby people, I agree that in order for us to all be equal all portions of a society must be recognized. This is a portion of the black society that is way too often overlooked.</p>

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<p>Honestly, I haven’t read this book.</p>

<p>I think on the basis of literary entertainment and engagement it sounds interesting. I, being black myself, have only seen glimpses of the black “high class” society through what I watch of the Fresh Prince. Haha. (Note: I put high class in quotes because I think the plethora meanings that the word high class contains is ridiculous. Almost a sort of obsession, in my opinion.)</p>

<p>Now, as for being a good example of how black in America can succeed I think it’d have two effects. On one hand, the hard work and dedication that these so called “elites” have put into their jobs, families, ect. can be somewhat admirable.</p>

<p>However, I think it is when the focus switches from hardwork to family prestige and connections that this list fails to inspire and becomes a patchwork of elitism and superficiality. I am sure countless individuals on this would-be list are more down to earth, strong-willed, and personable. But to see a list based on such criteria such as having exessive amounts of money and membership into restrictive clubs makes it so that the individuality of these people is masked by a shield of elitist attitudes. </p>

<p>For some, this list may provide a hope that they and their families can truly ascend the social ladder. But my thought is that for most, myself partially included, it only shows the seperation of classes, and to some extent a seperation of black culture. It kind of resembles “white flight,” which occured after WW1 when suburbs were created and white individuals who could afford to leave the city left is masses. What was created the elites who could afford to live in suburbs, and the minorities and lower income families who were left behind to work. This still happens today, and carries with it both good and bad implications.</p>

<p>Anyways, I feel like I was rambling on for too long. All in all, I think the publishing of individuals on this list without their consent provides absolutely no benefit. But if people want to be a part of it, so be it. This lifestyle is out there, so there is no point in hiding from or rejecting it.</p>