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Hard to see that being the case, since what is a challenge for one kid is easy for another. They appear to want not only mastering challenges but mastering the most challenging thing offered.</p>
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<p>While state universities are often generous with credit units for AP scores, it is worth remembering that many are less generous with subject credit or placement (though that may depend on one’s major), so they may not save as many semesters if one is in a major with many requirements or a long sequence of prerequisites that cannot be shortened much by AP credit.</p>
<p>I’ve known kids who have had a year’s college under the belt due to AP credits. A number of selective schools do accept the credits too. But most of them opted to use the APs for some buffer for better grades, to get out of the en masse freshman classes, to allow them to take more specialized courses with the general requirements fulfilled and to take a year off or a light load. I am grateful that my current college kid has 4 basic college courses from high school. That gave him leeway to take a bit of a lighter load while he accimated (he didn’t second term which was a mistake), to work some hours to make some extra money, participate in some activities, explore his new environment, and he also was able to skip out of some of the general requirements if he so chose which means more choice in what he can take without worrying about getting all of those graduation core requirements.</p>
<p>My one son took it to the limit in that he was going for a BFA and his college took all of the AP credits so he basically was done with academics. It was a good thing too because HE was also done with academics and I doubt he would have gotten through college if he had to take two years of them. With Math, science, English, history all out of the way along with some other courses, he really could spend his time taking just what interested him. Even though he had enough APs and summer college courses to be of second semester sophomore standing credit wise, however, he still needed all four years since his course of study required 8 semesters all built upon the earler on in several specialty areas. It would have been possible to get out early had he spent the first year summer at the school and gotten a jump on some of the earlier requirements, but the pre reqs to the advanced courses otherwise required 8 semesters.</p>
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<p>First of all, from all the sources about college admissions, you can place the adcoms who address the general public as one of the worst. They are often the most juniors around and have been known to say things that directly contradict their own offices. </p>
<p>Further, a lot of what we “know” is based on a collection of anecdotes. Some anecdotes will rely the great success of Kid A who accumulated dozens of AP; others will show that kids with very few or no AP did extremely well at the HYPS and similar schools. The reality is that WE cannot tell if the great essays or great number of AP triggered the fat envelope or if it was in spite of them. </p>
<p>Further, I believe that there is little disagreement about the fact that Asians are especially attracted to the AP race. And, there is little disagreement that they constitute the most vocal group when it comes to sharing disappointment in admissions. Again, all based on anecdotes. </p>
<p>On the other hand, from mildy confidential reports and studies, it seems that the average number of AP courses at Stanford is below FOUR. As an additional datapoint, I know that a Texas private low-budget catholic high school that made the AP an afterthought and refocused entirely on a strong Honors, dual enrollment credit program, and the basic SAT has done extremely well in admissions at the most prestigious schools. The competing public high school with its focus on IB and extended AP program? No comparison whatsoever.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse, D2 was the same. Of her core curriculum, she only had to take one math and one science. And because of her degree plan, she could pretty much pick which ones - they didn’t have to be what one would consider “upper level”. This allowed her more time to focus on her favorite stuff, practice her music, and get involved in a service organization. Her load is light too. She needs to carry 30 hours per year through her junior year in order to maintain one of her scholarships. Sometimes it’s a challenge finding the hours to fill out her semester.</p>
<p>It depends on the high school. The independent schools, as I mentioned earlier, a number of them are getting rid of the AP designation. Schools in that category who have a preselected student body, tend to do well in selective school admissions, and it isn’t going to matter a whit whether they take AP Courses or not, especially if the school has done away with the designation or have courses beyond AP. My sons’ school has Linear Algebra and Differential Equations as mathe courses, so BC Calc is trumped there. And that is the “Big Daddy” of AP courses. </p>
<p>If you really want to know what the impact of taking AP courses are at YOUR kid’s high school, you need to talk to the GCs there, and look at the list of kids going to the schools your kid might be considering. If it is the case that those kids are taking the AP track for the most part, it really doesn’t matter how it works at the school down the road or across the country. What matters is for your particular situation… </p>
<p>Again I don’t think loading up on a dozen APs is going to be that useful. Therre are a core of AP courses that are more valued, and for some reason, the I’ve read on CC that having four courses, the right four, is more important than taking a bunch of courses just because they have the AP designation. But yes, if you ar looking at MIT, and you are from a school that has a number of the top kids applying there, it does help to have that BC Calc and Physics C in your schedule. </p>
<p>If your kid goes to school somewhere off the radar of selective schools, taking AP courses offered and haveng a test or two with a 4/5 is very useful for the school to assess how well you have been taught academic material.</p>
<p>There is a wide variation in what individual schools’ regular, honors & AP classes are like in terms of content & rigor. The state of TN has decreed that classes with the “honors” designation must have students complete an “honors portfolio.” The students have to complete a project at the end of each marking period that goes towards their portfolio. In our experience, it’s usually tangentially connected to the subject and is a huge pain in the tushie especially since every class has their honors portfolio project due the last week of the MP. In the years when kids are very limited to access to AP classes (primarily freshman & sophomore years) the honors projects drive kids & parents crazy, especially when it’s some trumped up art project for a pre-calc class. But the alternative is to take a regular level class, where a good number of kids don’t care about academics, even in a good district.</p>
<p>This year D2 is enjoying the last week of marking period 1, because she doesn’t have a single honors portfolio project due. The idea of taking 6 AP classes senior year sounded bad to me in the spring, but she’s thankful that she doesn’t have to do an honors calc “project.”</p>
<p>I see a growing backlash from colleges against the proliferation of AP credits. Most college professors don’t believe that AP high school courses are equivalent to college courses, and departments are starting to raise the scores required to get any credit; if not that, then they are limiting the credits to classes that cannot be used as prerequisites to upper level courses, because they are tired of having ill-prepared students who met the prereqs through AP. Many faculty are irritated by the degree of de facto control the College Board, a for-profit institution, has over defining the curriculum of intro-level classes. We’ve reached a turning point and expect that colleges will start scrutinizing and limiting AP credits more closely in the near future.</p>
<p>And, of course, now that practically “everyone” is taking APs, the colleges are losing money. The AP is a debased currency.</p>
<p>My D’s HS doesn’t, for the most part, have honors classes when there is an AP class for that subject. My daughter likes challenging classes and wants to learn so she’s taken quite a few honors and AP classes. She took AP world history as a sophomore (her first AP class) and the teacher made them take notes a certain way each night and my daughter was playing soccer and got behind (and never caught up that semester). So . . . last year she decided to take regular US history since she didn’t want to be overwhelmed again (she was also taking AP calc AB and AP English Lang.). </p>
<p>Well, the first day of school the regular US history teacher gave them a map of the US and five minutes to fill in what they could. Most of the kids stopped writing within a couple minutes but my daughter wrote up until time was called. She learned this in 5th grade. The teacher then told the class that by the end of the year they would be able to completely fill in the map. The next day the teacher gave them a worksheet to figure out where they fell on the political spectrum. Then she made them raise their hands when she called where they fell. That really irritated my daughter because she thinks where she falls politically is personal. The third day, they watched a movie. After that class my daughter went to the AP US history teacher and asked if he had room in his class for her. He did and she switched and loved that class. She is currently taking AP gov’t from that same teacher and loves it–especially since this is a presidential election year. </p>
<p>The difference between a regular class and an AP class is huge at my daughter’s school. If a student wants to be challenged, he/she has to take honors or AP classes.</p>
<p>BTW, my D will use her AP credits to gain almost a full year of credit if she goes to a state university (and a few of the private universities she is looking at). That’s a pretty good return on my investment of about $800 for the AP exams.</p>
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<p>This is probably why private colleges are typically less generous with credit units for AP scores than public colleges. The private colleges don’t want students graduating early by using AP credit, so that the students can pay a full 8 semesters (or more) of tuition. The public colleges subsidize in-state residents, so each semester earlier that such a student graduates is overall savings for the college.</p>
<p>On the other hand, it is not even close to “everyone” taking AP exams. According to [Advanced</a> Placement® Results for the Class of 2011 Announced](<a href=“News and Press Releases - Newsroom | College Board”>News and Press Releases - Newsroom | College Board) , 18.1% of public high school class of 2011 graduates scored at least a 3 on at least one AP exam. A further 12.1% took one or more AP exams but did not score at least a 3 on any. The total of 30.2% even attempting AP exams is far from “everyone”. The idea that “everyone” takes AP courses and exams probably comes from people living in a bubble of near-elite high schools where nearly everyone goes on to a four year college, and where multiple acceptances to each super-selective college is common.</p>
<p>Taking AP classes and taking AP exams are two different things. I would be interested to know where all these kids are that are NOT taking AP classes…</p>
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<p>It seems to be a growing trend for high schools to require taking the AP test when taking the AP course, so the difference may not be as great as one may think.</p>
<p>The ones not taking AP and honors courses in high school are taking regular college-prep courses or non-college-prep courses. Those taking regular college-prep courses are likely headed mainly to moderately selective state and private universities and community colleges. The students in non-college-prep courses are likely mainly headed to community college (for vocational training or associates degrees, not transfer preparation), trade school, or work (possibly enlisted military service).</p>
<p>Remember that only about a third of people eventually complete a bachelor’s degree. It does seem that many on these forums are oblivious to the existence of the two thirds who do not.</p>
<p>Thank you The GFG. I was about to post the same thing. I’m no longer impressed when I see a resume that portrays a person doing more than is humanly possible. The kid is a three season athlete. That alone takes an enormous time commitment. Then he’s also captain of the math team, which presumably meets and trains regularly for meets at the same time that the sports teams are practicing, and editor(in chief?) of the school literary magazine, which presumably requires editing, reviewing, and publishing time, an officer of the student council, which presumably meets at the same time as the above activities, and is, in his spare time, conducting research in cardiology at a local university? You’ll forgive me if I’m just a wee bit skeptical.</p>
<p>My kid was the co-editor-in-chief of her school’s lit mag. You know what happened to her three years running? The co-editors had one excuse after another when crunch time came and she was up all night doing the work to get the publication to the publisher. Whenever I read a resume like this now, I roll my eyes and figure that this superstar is leaning on others to carry the day.</p>
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<p>While trivial to this discusion, the College Board is NOT a for-profit institution. It is actually a </p>
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<p>I am not sure why colleges and faculty would be irritated about the control of TCB. It is their own fault since the organization comprises the schools. </p>
<p>They can blame themselves!</p>
<p>PCHope, I don’t disagree with you at all that there are many well-rounded Asian students. I’d go one step further and say that it seems to me that the stereotype of the “boring Asian bookworm” is one that has outlived its reality. </p>
<p>I can’t let the AP Chinese/AP Language or Literature comment pass though. There’s a huge distinction between the two groups of courses. If I were to enroll in a Chinese school and enroll in an English language class, arguing that my grammar isn’t perfect and I might benefit from the class, I would be acting dishonestly because I am already fluent in this language and in all likelihood have a better grasp of grammar than the students in this class. That’s quite different from enrolling in an advanced literature or grammar class in my native language when the premise of the class is that I’m being instructed in my native language.</p>
<p>There are native born Chinese enrolled in Mandarin 4 in my daughter’s high school. These kids are fluent in Mandarin. Frankly, they should not have been allowed into this class and for this I blame the school. Either they should have sought an independent study or have been placed into a different language class. They are quite frank that the reason for doing this is to have an easy class and to get an easy A.</p>
<p>Ever consider that the native speakers of a non-English language may need to show an AP score or a level 4+ language course on the high school transcript to “check the box” for many colleges that want to see “four years of foreign language”? (But then some people here think that they should have to learn a third language beyond their native language and English. Also, it seems that people only complain about this for people who are native or heritage speakers of Asian languages, rather than for native or heritage speakers of European languages.)</p>
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<p>The CB sells its own “profiles” of high schools to colleges. The info in these profiles included the # of AP tests taken in each field and the scores received. If only 20% of the kids taking a particular AP test at a given high school get a score of 3 or better, colleges know this.</p>
<p>Nope, sorry, UCBalumnus. I’ve complained just as loudly about friends of my older girls who gamed the system with French and Spanish. </p>
<p>If the idea is to learn another language, then studying one’s native language wouldn’t seem to qualify. I have no objection to using the English language study as credit for both foreign language study and for English language, at least in the particular case I mentioned. If a kid is bilingual, then according to the rules of this particular school, that kid does have to take a third language. We know several kids doing exactly that.</p>
<p>Xiggi, faculty and departments dislike the College Board. Their say is quite diluted. And yes, technically the College Board is not-for-profit. But they have a quasi-monopolistic grip on credentials that students need to get into the college, and they charge huge fees. They are a self-justifying, self-perpetuating parasite on higher education.</p>
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<p>People do not complain; they merely point out how silly those Asian AP and Subject Tests really are. The College Board started offering a Subject Test in Korean after Samsung offered to pay for its development. The main objective? Leveling the playing with the Chinese who could boost their chances at the UC by taking a test that requires less than a middle school level of knowledge. Those Asian language tests are jokes for native speakersm and very different from tests in German or French! Sorry for stating the obvious, but those tests are only in existence and popular because of the possibilities of gamesmanship! </p>
<p>As far as “having to take” a fourth year of a language, or having to learn a third language, this is not an issue exclusive to Asians. Others seem to have more common sense, if you care to call it that, not to take a foreign language that happens to be as close to the native one as humanly possible.</p>