<p>I am new here and I have a question for those who feel badly or negatively about these Asian parents who push their kids into studying subjects they don’t want - becoming medical doctors, engineers when they would rather study something else, like art, for eg. Do you have any older Asian friends who were brought up that way ? Are they unhappy or miserable and wished their parents had behaved otherwise ?</p>
<p>I have friends of all races who were forced into studying subjects that were more “practical” than the ones they truly loved. And as a near 50 year old woman, I have DOZENS of female friends who became nurses & teachers because their families & guidance counselors in those chauvanistic days insisted that was the path they should follow. I even know nuns who were forced into that vocation.</p>
<p>Every single one of them has made peace of some sort with their lot in life. Some have gone on to other fields. They made do, but always express regret that their own choices were not respected.</p>
<p>I have one Asian friend who seems to have bucked the stereotype but only on the surface. He wanted to be an engineer, but his parents thought that engineering was too close to being a manual worker. His culture considered white collar jobs (even fairly menial ones) more prestigious than those involving manual work. So he studied politics and became a prof at a fourth tier university. He did not publish and failed to get promoted. When he was in his fifties, he was still yearning for the engineering career he did not have. He had a hobby that involved lots of mechanical work and getting his hands really dirty.</p>
<p>I once knew a young man whose parents pressured him to study medicine when he really wanted to study ancient history. Half-way through college he had a break-down; his parents finally relented. But for the most part, I think children take into account their parents’ preferences and make their peace with the choice of major and careers promoted by their parents.</p>
<p>Do you have any older Asian friends who were brought up that way ? Are they unhappy or miserable and wished their parents had behaved otherwise ?</p>
<p>Second generation parents are not that way- they are fairly assimilated into the culture.
In the northwest we have many asian families, Filipinos are one of our largest groups. When I was in elementary school one of my best friends in the Seattle suburbs was Filipina,and she did very well in school( and in the 60’s kids were not micromanged as many are today) although in the Seattle area, Filipinos have the lowest scores.
I also had Japanese-American friends ( at that time) many had mixed parents as couples my age are now. Japanese and Chinese families that have been here longest don’t push their kids in areas seperate from parents backgrounds, unless kids are driving that. If parents are Drs, there is encouragement for that, but if they are writers or musicians, naturally you see more exposure to those fields.</p>
<p>First gen parents are most competitive, but that is diffused when they are married to 2nd gen or long term residents of U.S. ( on the other hand, Caucasian friends who are married to recent Asian immigrants, find that their spouse has a very different idea of parenting)
The couple that own the gas station mini mart a block or so away are Tibetan for example. Their kids go to Lakeside ( the most competitive and expensive prep school in the area- also where the current Math counts champion attends)
I don’t know them socially so I can’t speak to how pushy they are with their kids- I wouldn’t consider just sending them to Lakeside as enough indication.</p>
<p>Personally I can empathize with the concern that kids are well set up to succeed in life- even though I do admit that if I took a room ful of kids and the ones who felt that an Ivy was the only school worth attending- I could predict their background.</p>
<p>My greater concern is with the segment of parents who feel that education is not necessarily the way for their kids, and all but throw their hands up when dealing with their childs behavior and academic life.
Im sure it feels different from inside, but I have seen in some families through time, the family becoming less involved in the school and the child following their example.
It doesn’t help to lower reasonable expectations</p>
<p>I think it’s worth repeating that all these parents we are talking about, on both sides of this particular issue, are genuinely trying to do what they believe is best for their children. What we have here is a cultural disagreement on the best way to do that.</p>
<p>“Do you have any older Asian friends who were brought up that way ? Are they unhappy or miserable and wished their parents had behaved otherwise ?”</p>
<p>Unfortunately, too many to count. However, my focus is on the young ones, since I encounter students in my work. It’s tough for me to shrug off the generational factor or the new-immigrant factor. When one looks back and regrets The Road Not Taken, it doesn’t sting any less or reduce the sense of personal loss to understand that the parents just were using their cultural lens. It certainly promotes perspective, yes, but the loss is not recoverable.</p>
<p>^ On the other hand, I known an internationally renown surgeon of Asian parentage who said that without his parents pushing him like crazy as a kid, he wouldn’t go into medicine at all. For the interest of others, I am first gen Asian. And no, I don’t push my kids into medicine, law or anything else. Will see how it turns out. Though, I have to admit, I am wondering about my parenting way all the time, especially when I think Asian!</p>
<p>I want to add that by no means do I focus more on Asian parents than on any others, in this respect. Right now I’m dealing with a native-born Anglo American family. Parents are pushing their only son into a field which he’s utterly unsuited for & is frightening him. He’s an Only, & feels cornered. Teachers and self are on his side, promoting his own self-determination, but this is so difficult for him with no one at home to advocate for him ‘against’ two adults. I am no more nor less frustrated by this situation than by any similar situation with a different cultural origin. It’s all the same to me. The passages of personal development are there for a reason: nature/God put them there as singular moments for us to exploit in a timely fashion. Never again will you feel that sense of unbounded possibilities as you will when you are an adolescent. That illusion is there to propel & sustain you to answer your internal ‘call.’ </p>
<p>As to pragmatism, I can understand extreme situations. If you’re in the midst of natural of economic disaster, dreams may or must be put aside. But if you’ve just arrived here, it’s important to readjust from Third World to First World, or you lose some of the very advantage in coming here in the first place (i.e., <em>expanded</em> opportunity).</p>
<p>Epiphany, I agree with you, but I do think there is a continuum here, and that most parents would try to dissuade their kids from a career choice that looked likely to be disastrous, even if it id the kid’s dream. I’m thinking, for example, about a kid whose dream is to be a professional athlete, but who does not have the physical talents to make it happen. While I agree that parents should encourage their kids to follow their dreams, we may have some realism to impart to that process. I’m encountering some of this myself, as my son is interested in music as a career–I find myself saying things like, “Producer may be a more doable career than rock star.”</p>
<p>“I’m thinking, for example, about a kid whose dream is to be a professional athlete, but who does not have the physical talents to make it happen.”</p>
<p>The dream is in context, Hunt. We were talking about those with talent to follow their dreams, so your comparison (Dream Miinus Talent) is not apt within that framework.</p>
<p>Coming in late to this thread, but I don’t think this question has been raised here: Seriously, why not teach calculus to anyone who wants to take it, whenever they want to take it? Age eleven? Sixteen? Twenty? Ninety-five? Who cares?</p>
<p>From my perspective, the idea of anyone running in order to sign up for calculus is both amusing and heartening. In the sciences, we need more people with an excellent understanding of mathematics. </p>
<p>If a young person is closed out of taking a calculus course he/she wanted, I’d suggest starting with Sylvanus P. Thompson’s “Calculus Made Easy,” and going on from there.</p>
<p>I know that there’s a discussion of the “calculus trap” on the AoPS site. My take on this: Postponing calculus in favor of deeper and more extensive pre-calculus mathematics is a great idea, IF a student is able to take deeper and more extensive pre-calculus mathematics courses. In practice, however, I can prove the following theorem: There exists at least one American public high school that makes this difficult, if not impossible, for its students.</p>
<p>(I’m not Asian.)</p>
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<p>Well, I know one of those too. His father said the family had a person in each of the desirable professions already, except medicine, so he became a medical doctor. He didn’t have a overriding passion to study anything else and did not hate medicine. He became one of the foremost expert in his field. </p>
<p>Another friend, said mom(Asian) pushed her so hard, she never had any time to play. She was practicing up to 14 hours a day even in elementary school. Mom’s ambition was for her to be a musician. She said her older sis rebelled but she fulfilled her parent’s wishes. Went to the top school in her field and got a masters. She recently decided she does not want to be a musician anymore and is planning to go to law school. What I got from talking to her is that all that pressure when she was young gave her the confidence and DISCIPLINE to take on anything in life. When once I mention how my poor D, who grew up in the US (we are not a very strict/ambitious family either) simply cannot compete with those hard working students from Asia, (the ability is there but not the motivation and discipline) she said something so telling …" What is so difficult about XYZ grades, you just decide you want to and study for it, it is as simple as that. " That is confidence and knowing how to succeed. Something my D does not have, maybe because I didn’t press her as hard my friend’s mom did. (She had a vague ambition to go to Stanford, but didn’t think she was good enough and love to hang out with her friends.) </p>
<p>Like you, I wonder about my parenting all the time too and I don’t push, esp. when I see how my Asian friends’ kids are doing and mine seem to be so far behind them in maturity.</p>
<p>There is no “one” truth. The push towards education by Asians parents can have a vast array of motives, depending on the parents. There plenty of Asian parents who are very proud of their children whose talents lie more in the humanities and wouldn’t dream of dissuading them- mine, for example. ^.^</p>
<p>And I think an oft-overlooked factor is that parents can also change. Frankly, it’s been very interesting watching my mom’s opinions and values slowly change over time from 11 years ago. She had always stressed effort over achievement and never favored math/science over humanities, but over time she’s become less and less perfectionistic about what she expects, and involves herself less and less with my academics. She pushed me into a gifted program and into skipping a grade when I was in elementary school, but now all of my challenging experiences, academic or otherwise, are self initiated. She’s willingly relinquished control over my life, and being controlling myself, I know how it must have been a struggle. So it’s been a gradual process. Some people are still at the beginning of it…</p>
<p>The only line I stood in was for Pre-k. Our neighbor was raving about this program and told us that they have few spots available, and asked us to go stand in line early. The registration was to begin at 8:00, and I thought 6:00 would be early enough. I go there at 6:00 and there were half a dozen people already there, and I was the only Asian.</p>
<p>Hi, yeah I didn’t read this whole thread. Sorry if I repeat something. My parents are immigrants from the Middle East (Jordan/Palestine/Syria). And they grew up poor with little to no financial stability. They always pushed me to do my best grades wise but I have a natural love of learning anyways. </p>
<p>Yeah my parents want me to become either a doctor or engineer, but I know that its because they want me to have finacial stability. For my parents, both of my grandfathers had govt jobs w/no college degrees and were always on the edge of being laid off. </p>
<p>I think people need to look at the past. They most likely came from poverty and they just want the best for their children. If you look at any poor family and their kid has the chance to go to college, they will most likely choose finance,pre-med, or engineering. My dad and his brother studied engineering, the other two brothers studied doctors, and sister studied dentistry.</p>
<p>I want to major in creative writing, but I’m taking the pre-med track as well. I think it is possible to do both. Besides, some of the greatest writers were also doctors (Williams Carlos Williams, Chekov, Khaled Hosseini-author of Kite Runner, Dr. Zhivago-okay he’s not real, but still)</p>
<p>My parents aren’t forcing me into pre-med, but a lot of other family members look down at my creative writing major. It’s sad that poverty and financial instability take away the importance of the arts. However, art is not a privelige, any society no matter what will have art. The significance and value of art and creativity may be downplayed, but that is most likely attributed to a bad economic situation.</p>
<p>I’m done with my senior thesis now, lol, jk</p>
<p>Iam Asian. My daughter is half Japanese/French. I do not find the original post funny, in fact I felt insulted. I do not push my daughter, she is self motivated to the point that we often have to tell her that grades are not everything and to enjoy life a little. I am very proud of her efforts 4.25 +. varsity sports, president Key Club etc. However, if she told me she wanted a spot on “whatever” summer program, you bet your butt that I would race you to the gate to get her the opportunity, I feel it is the least I can do to support the interest she has. If you are saying that Japanese (French, German, Czech…)mom’s who do whatever it takes to support their child is funny than, ha ha</p>
<p>“Iam Asian. My daughter is half Japanese/French. I do not find the original post funny, in fact I felt insulted.”</p>
<p>Then your comprehension is limited. It was a report of a funny experience shared between people. Laughing TOGETHER. If you’re insulted by that, you have a problem. The post was not about parents pushing their kids, those posts all came later.</p>
<p>The fact that you mention this as an “Asian” steoreotype to begin with does reveal some serious issues you need to examine. I’m sorry if you can’t grasp that.</p>
<p>" We stood there watching and realized that of the 35 or so kids registering, mine was the only non-Asian and the only one not registering for calculus!"</p>
<p>Just because we preface a reply with words like, “I never” or “I don’t”, does not mean its ok. Please don’t perpetuate stereotypes</p>
<p>“The fact that you mention this as an “Asian” steoreotype to begin with does reveal some serious issues you need to examine. I’m sorry if you can’t grasp that.”</p>
<p>Re-read the post and maybe you can grasp that the point was that I’ve never seen this before so it can’t be that pervasive.</p>
<p>J"Just because we preface a reply with words like, “I never” or “I don’t”, does not mean its ok. Please don’t perpetuate stereotypes"</p>
<p>Feel free not to read. Just nurse your insult and isolate yourself.</p>