<p>I’ve heard about stereotypical Asian behavior as it relates to college admission since I joined CC and I’ve always said “huh?” because I’ve never had any experiece with that or with elite admissions. Today, we took ZS to one of the local colleges to register for a summer program that provides classes for credit to selected kids. There are about five classes that students can take, depeding on preference. There are enough spots for the selected kids to get a seat somewhere, but the class choice is first-come, first-served – meaning that some kids may not get their first choice class. One class is Calculus, then history, cinema, etc. So the registration period happened to be in the middle of the day and we went because we still had to do some stuff related to ZG’s hospitalization. The doors opened at 1:30 and all attendees had to come across a courtyard from the parking lot. Ok, so people parked and started milling across to the door, slowly as if in no rush. Picture this now. People coming from different directions noticed others walking toward the door and all started speeding up. And speeding up more. And then all running toward the door to be the first on line. Hilarious! I was bent over laughing so hard I got a cramp in my side. When we finally all got on line, there was jockeying, fussing and so forth. We stood there watching and realized that of the 35 or so kids registering, mine was the only non-Asian and the only one not registering for calculus! It got even funnier when several kids were turned away because the parents were trying to sneak in middle school students to register for a program by invitation only for high school students. They were all Asian too. Now, there was nothing inappropriate or anything, it became amusing to me because I was thinking of all the things I’ve read on CC and was finally seeing it for the first time! I wish I had had a camera for YouTube. You guys would have loved it. (This is in no way a criticism of any parents or any type of value judgment, just an attempt to share a personal snapshot that I thought some of you might find funny.)</p>
<p>To quote Lilly Von Stuck–it’s trwue, it’s trwue.</p>
<p>Stereotypes don’t create themselves. The problem isn’t that they’re untrue, it’s that they’re not entirely untrue.</p>
<p>It does sound like an amusing event. The stereotype I see if one of parents who value education and are passing that value to their children. I wish that stereotype existed in every square inch of America.</p>
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Yeah. It’s kind of pathetic nowadays.</p>
<p>Education is the best way up the social ladder for those that weren’t born on one of the higher rungs.</p>
<p>“Education is the best way up the social ladder for those that weren’t born on one of the higher rungs.”</p>
<p>Yes we all know that, but it’s not often that we personally get to see something visually comparable to the running of the bulls in our own neighborhoods.</p>
<p>"We stood there watching and realized that of the 35 or so kids registering, mine was the only non-Asian and the only one not registering for calculus! It got even funnier when several kids were turned away because the parents were trying to sneak in middle school students to register for a program by invitation only for high school students. They were all Asian too. "</p>
<p>Zoosermom - my kids attend a summer talent search program and they are one of very few non-Asians in the program. My kids are taking courses entirely of their own choosing (creative writing, religion, social work, psych). I couldn’t care less what classes they take – they’re all good as far as I am concerned, this is about finding and following your interests, and it’s all the same to me as long as they are happy and productive. Several of their Asian friends have specifically mentioned that they wanted to take humanities classes, but were forced by their parents to take math, physics and computer science. </p>
<p>Also through their friendships, it is amazing how much pressure is put on these kids. Ds has several Asian friends where they are not allowed to do <em>anything</em> not related to studying through the week (not even a half hour of TV, not even going to ride a bike or take a long walk) and if they don’t get straight A’s, the consequences are extreme. Don’t get me wrong, dh and I are elite school grads ourselves and can be academic snobs, but the amount of pressure my kids have is NOTHING compared to these kids. </p>
<p>It’s not complimentary or flattering at all, and I feel sorry for them.</p>
<p>“It does sound like an amusing event. The stereotype I see if one of parents who value education and are passing that value to their children. I wish that stereotype existed in every square inch of America.”</p>
<p>Everything in moderation. It’s quite possible to love learning, value education and simultaneously not have it all be about a contest and beating someone else for one of a few coveted spots. It’s quite unsophisticated to think that only a few colleges in this country are worthwhile and that missing out on them means a life of flipping burgers.</p>
<p>“Several of their Asian friends have specifically mentioned that they wanted to take humanities classes, but were forced by their parents to take math, physics and computer science.”</p>
<p>I am also disappointed by this, as I encounter it so often in my work in education & specifically in my consulting work, as well as in personal encounters outside of CC. I find it especially heartbreaking to meet an Asian-American student talented in the creative arts, who has switched to science due to family pressure. I have met so many of these students. Like many others, I applaud & am uplifted by a preference for education, but am saddened by all those dreams deferred & repressed. Losing your soul, your individuality, is quite a tradeoff for “success.”</p>
<p>I can recall taking my son to take the exam for the two local magnet high schools (one IB, one math/science, but they take the same test at the same location). The kids there to take the test were overwhelmingly Asian. I mean, over 90%. I don’t think these magnet schools are anywhere near that percentage Asian, although there are a lot of Asians. It seems to me that there are two possibilities: (1) Asians are being discriminated against in admission to these magnets or (2) many Asian kids who don’t really have the high achievement level necessary to get in are nevertheless taking the admission test. I think it’s the latter, but I don’t really know.</p>
<p>I had never had any experience with this because ZG went to an all-white Catholic high school and ZS is in an IB program at a predominantly black school with very few Asian students. Interestingly, those who do attend this school have opted out of the IB in order to take a la carte AP classes. My daughter has been very fortunate to be chosen for some very nice programs, this summer thing being one, but she’s a humanities person (Classics), so we don’t cross paths often and she doesn’t compete with math/science students (although she’s got great grades in both). I had always heard about this stereotype on CC and, frankly, thought you were all nuts, but there they were, a large group of people running across a courtyard. Funny as all get out. We were very surprised that all wanted the math class because some of the science or humanities classes were very interesting and offered more credits, but what do I know? ZG took the biochem program several years ago and it was spectacular – I’m convinced that her research project got her money in college, but there weren’t any takers at that point. The kids who were too young to enroll were clearly not old enough to be in high schools, but the mothers were pushy and adamant, although ultimately did not prevail.</p>
<p>I think a lot of the Asian stereotype that we see is due to a disconnect between cultures. We have family in Asia and when you study Asian history a lot of this becomes very clear. For example, for many <em>hundreds</em> of years all advancement in China was granted on the basis of performance on civil service exams. Education and specifically, performance on high stakes exams was the way to prominence for anyone not born into the nobility and for many of those, too. Naturally, the culture values education and test-taking. One of my middle-aged relatives told me that when she graduated from high school, she took an exam and listed her choices of schools and careers. The score was used by the government to rank students and she was told where to go and what to major in - no choice, no discussion, no ECs, no essays.</p>
<p>Compare this to what Americans see as the path of success: independence, leadership, being well-rounded, entreprenuerial ability, smarts (and not necessarily in education). You can definitely see the heritage of all of those risk-taking immigrants and pioneers in that!</p>
<p>I believe that when folks raised in an Asian culture come to America they see some of the same things they saw at home - a ranking of schools and some high stakes tests - the way to success! But they don’t realize that although there are schools better regarded than others, plenty of successful Americans - even presidents and the super-rich - didn’t graduate from them, or possibly from anywhere. They also don’t realize that the other things on those applications - essays, ECs, and recommendations - speak to things Americans, and American colleges, very highly value.</p>
<p>I think it’s a cultural misunderstanding. It makes me sad, because I think that the stress on these parents and students (which will not necessarily be rewarded) is very high. On the other hand, my younger relatives in Asia are leading much the same lives: studying, school, tutors, and cram schools from breakfast to bedtime. It doesn’t seem right to me, but then again, I’m an American, and those are not the things I value…</p>
<p>Hugenot, what a great post.</p>
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LOL!!! You paint a vivid & hysterical picutre, zoosermom.</p>
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<p>well, at least once a year, during those dang day-after-Thanksgiving sales. :)</p>
<p>"well, at least once a year, during those dang day-after-Thanksgiving sales. "</p>
<p>That is the PERFECT analogy.</p>
<p>No offense, but I don’t find it funny. Being someone who spends her days with Asian co-workers, it’s painful all of this.</p>
<p>Watch a show called The Slanted Screen, on PBS, for one perspective. Stereotypes may come from some not-uncommon group behaviour, but that in no way means everyone in the group participates in the behaviours.</p>
<p>“Stereotypes may come from some not-uncommon group behaviour, but that in no way means everyone in the group participates in the behaviours.”</p>
<p>Of course not, which is why I posted. because I’ve mentioned twice that I’ve never seen any such behavior before and I thought everyone here was making it up or crazy.</p>
<p>I am not up in arms. I see you on this forum as a very warm nice person. It’s just that part of what brings sorrow to people is the difficulty those in the majority have in putting themselves into the shoes of the minority. What looks comical from the outside may feel painful on the inside, and so laughing becomes hurtful.</p>