Since religion was mentioned, I’ll note that D found it extremely educational to go to Utah for college, despite being (or perhaps because she is) a liberal atheist. But many people in our social circles would complete reject that idea and thought it was very odd for her to go there. In some cases they even implied that going there for college was an implicit endorsement of LDS and conservatism.
This was before current controversies over abortion rights, which seem to have amplified such sentiments even further. But many of her friends (all liberal women, mostly atheist) chose to stay in the state after graduation or even went back there after moving elsewhere. They don’t find it necessary to live in places where the majority of politics and social norms accord with their own views, there is enough diversity in a big city like SLC for everyone.
There are many, many threads on CC from parents saying that their student will only apply to colleges in blue states. But you don’t just encounter Roth’s “diversity of thought” within your college bubble. In fact, given the tendency of colleges towards liberal views, you may be more likely to encounter opposite views outside your college environment.
Speaking as a red-state resident, I can’t say I’ve observed anyone saying the’re excluding red states on a purely ideological basis. What I have seen (and, tbh, what I think is perfectly reasonable) is people saying that they’re hesitant to send their kids to states where the laws will treat them as something less than fully human, deny them necessary medical treatment, or otherwise use the power of the law to make sure they feel threatened on a constant basis.
For example, several states (including my own home state) are passing laws that make it difficult or even illegal for trans people to get gender-affirming care or to live consistent with their gender. It’s an entirely rational position for a trans student to avoid such states. That isn’t about ideology or fear of being uncomfortable, it’s about survival.
Abortion is a subject where people are more likely to perceive effects on quality of life, rather than just politics.
LGBT issues can also be quality of life issues rather than just politics for those who are LGBT (especially T these days).
Where the politics are seen as racist, people of the scapegoat race may find it a quality of life issue if, for example, they are more commonly treated with suspicion or get the police called on them when they are doing something perfectly legal.
A friend of mine had her teenage son stopped and frisked for driving HER car to pick up a younger child at a sports practice. In a VERY liberal place where the police (in general) are not known as being hostile to minorities. Kid had been trained and drilled in “what to do”- hands on the wheels, politely ask the police officer to get the registration out of the glove compartment, “my driver’s license is in my wallet in my front pocket-- do you want to retrieve it yourself or should I?” etc.
Even AFTER seeing that his last name matched the registration, the police officer kept challenging him “How can a young kid afford such a nice car?”.
Crime was driving while Black? Wearing a preppy outfit while driving a nice car? Cop didn’t even pretend the kid ran a red light. Was just in the mood for trouble.
That’s gonna be a lawsuit. And I won’t be surprised if the kid (now a junior) ends up at an HBCU just to end his 17 years of “model minority” behavior. Why should he go to a college where he doesn’t fit in?
I have to admit that in my hurry to read through your post, I read “A friend of mine had her teenage son” as meaning she had deliberately set something up with the police beforehand, as some sort of test. In the context of the thread, I thought it actually plausible.
Good advice. And if a student is rejected by a school for taking a conservative position in an essay (as though they would ever learn that was the reason for the rejection) then that school is probably not the place for them. Of course, the same could be said for a student who takes a progressive position in an essay applying to Brigham Young or Hinsdale.
I thought that while Brigham Young, as a LDS school, is unapologetically conservative, University of Utah had a reputation for being a left leaning party school. Am I mistaken?
I’m talking about living in the state of Utah, which is what most people seem to object to. But even at the U a significant fraction of students are LDS and you can’t escape gaining an understanding of those different viewpoints and cultures.
You can also describe Rice as a liberal school, but some families rule out going anywhere in Texas.
I disagree with President Roth. The best college is not one where you don’t fit in. The best college is one where there are students and faculty from a wide range of backgrounds (ethnic, socioeconomic, geographic, etc.), who have different values and beliefs, and are strong in a myriad of different fields (STEM, the arts, humanities, etc.). My ideal is a place where a white farm kid from Iowa majoring in engineering becomes friends with an upper middle class black kid from Chicago who is studying graphic design. They may not agree on everything, but they will listen to each other respectfully, and one might even change the other’s mind about something.
The worst college is an echo chamber where unfavored views are silenced and open debate is not protected.
That’s interesting. I’m old enough to remember when the biggest rap against affirmative action was that it appeared to benefit mainly black students from middle-class families. Mind you, I’m not seeking to relitigate that issue. I’m simply pointing out the irony that for years the term, “middle-class blacks” was used as a cudgel almost as though simply being the middle-class descendants of slaves was not an achievement in itself. And I’m not talking about people who owned million-dollar homes. Just “teachers and preachers” with two wage-earners whose kids - as you illustrate - bring enough social capital to the table to at least engage in dialogue.
You could just as easily turn my example around to have a rich white kid from Evanston and a black farm kid from Georgia. Or pick any random combination of ethnicity, socioeconomic status, geographic location, and major.
A black family still in possession of a family farm in Georgia would be every bit as impressive as an upper middle class black family from New Jersey, IMO.
Absolutely. My point is that a kid who grows up on a farm probably has had very different experiences, and therefore outlook on life, than one from a major city.
Yes, I personally think the rural/suburban/urban dimension of diversity is one of the most relevant ones, not least in the US. And most HS kids have only experienced, and been around other kids experiencing, one sort of setting.
So I think that would often be a good one to seek out in college, meaning if possible don’t go to a college with mostly just kids from the same sort of setting you grew up with.
Lots of college students are financially limited to commuting to a nearby college. Although diversity of students in such colleges tends to be greater than in neighborhood K-12 schools due to the colleges’ larger catchment areas, they may still have less diversity of students than colleges that draw from an entire (large) state or the entire country.
Some students in rural areas may be too distant from any college to be able to commute to college, so they may be less likely to be able to afford college at all (depending on whether state university financial aid covers residential living costs, at least for students outside of commuting range from any college).
I think the worst college is one where the kids are so apathetic AND so gung ho about getting their ticket punched/partying so that they have NO views- favored, unfavored, or in between.
Which I think is the thrust (or one of them) of Roth’s point.
My own mental example for that when I read it, and I’ll get shot down for this, is that if you come from a long line of people who look, act and fit the part of a Greek student at a southern school like U of Alabama, maybe try something else and expand your boundaries. The same can be said for kids who grow up in the urban northeastern US to maybe head south and try something else on for size.
Of course, people will do what they want to do, and I’m guessing more often than not look for like-minded people and familiar sub-cultures.
