He’s been married 3 (?) times and has six or seven kids. Maybe he’s a biological man who wants to be a woman who loves women.
I don’t really understand your point. Are you implying that there would be something wrong with that, or that it would make Jenner’s transness less “real”? Gender identity and sexual orientation are two very different things. (Also, just fyi and in my opinion – and that of a great many others – trans women are as “biological” as anyone else. We are, after all, carbon-based life forms.)
I’m not much of an authority of Bruce’s life but, from what I can gather, and this is mostly guess work, he is like most athletes he was lost after his athletic career ended. He did a few endorsements, probably burned through that money fairly quickly, and there he was not real sure what his next move was. I do not think he has a college education and if he does I’d be willing to bet it is in basket weaving 101.
Apparently, he first cross dressed during his first marriage and his first wife was mostly confused by it but didn’t out him. That marriage ends and by that time he isn’t much of a celebrity anymore. The endorsement money is probably long gone by them. His skills, running, throwing a javelin, etc. hardly translate to the real world very well. At some point he meets Kris K. She is almost his exact opposite. She is confident, out going, sharp, knows how to make things happen. She literally invents a career for him, as a public speaker, and grooms him. They fall in love, for what that is worth, but little by little she wears the pants in the family.
To dislike Bruce because of her is to miss the point.
He is nothing like her. Eventually, he begins to feel, more and more, like a woman. If you look at pictures of him in his prime he is a stunningly good looking and clean cut looking man. I would love to have looked like Bruce Jenner. Just perfect physically. He is what, 6’1, 200, I don’t know but really good height, weight and obviously a spectacular athlete. He was/is very humble. A little shy almost. Seemingly unaware of how masculine and hot he was. Anyway, this story isn’t about Bruce being sensational, really, He has more than enough fame, and it isn’t about representing the TG/TS community it is really about Bruce finding enough courage to stop being what he doesn’t feel like anymore. If he was an accountant or truck driver, I’m not sure anyone would care. But he is Bruce Jenner. Pretty much the perfect clean cut American Male from the 70’s. He is the last guy you would guess would do this.
I read somewhere that his interest in sports and in being an Olympic athlete was in part to suppress his desire to live as a female. It’s sad to think he has had to hide his true self for so many decades.
Why does there have to be a “transgender community”?
Is there a “white community”? Or a “disabled community”?
I feel that every single person is unique, and though people can join together on issues that are important, everybody should feel free to go back to their normal lives and not be on a soapbox or bully pulpit just because of choices they make.
I for one do not want to represent “the atheist community” nor do groups like “American Atheists” (which truly offend me) represent me at all.
Poor guy (regarding all the attention). If he wants to make that choice, fine. I think gender is fluid and “being born” one way or another means that gender and sexual choices aren’t fluid.
I have met a number of trans women who were extraordinary good-looking as men – one of whom had a successful career on stage as a leading-man type – and were perhaps not quite so good-looking (by conventional beauty standards) as women. (And I’ve also met trans men who were similarly good-looking as women.) To the point that I heard some expressions of bafflement as to why they would want to do this. Which misses the point; when you don’t want to live as your assigned gender (and/or in the body typical of that gender), it doesn’t really matter so much how good-looking people think you are, and doesn’t make you feel any better.
Of course, this is a problem I never faced! I received more compliments (from both strangers and people I knew) on my appearance in my first year living as “myself” than I had in 25 years as an adult trying to live as a guy. Would I have transitioned if that weren’t the case, and I had looked like Jenner as a guy? I suspect that I would have eventually, although I’ve never been a fan of subjecting myself to public ridicule (the great fear that was one of the primary reasons for delaying my transition in the first place by many years, but which turned out in my case to be unfounded).
Anyway, I will be watching the Yankees play the Mets tonight (and, I hope, put them in their rightful place!); not this.
DonnaL. So if it’s not PC to say 'biological man" should I have said he’s an XY? Chromosomally male?
The term often used among trans people is “assigned male at birth.”
I don’t care about Bruce’s choices: he can be what he needs or wants to be.
But mostly I think about the Belushi/SNL parody of him with Belushi training with “Little Chocolate Donuts”.
That description of Jenner, including all your "probably"s and “from what I can gather, and this is mostly guess work,” – not to mention “probably burned through that money fairly quickly” – is patently one of the most unfair characterizations I’ve ever heard. You conjectured and surmised and were patently unfair to him.
Unfair in what way?
Out of curiosity, Donna, why wouldn’t you want to watch?
Regarding his post-Olympics career: let us not forget the Village People movie.
Honestly, I wish Bruce well. I never watched the Kardashians show, but if s/he was an unwilling participant in that circus it must have been torture.
“Assigned male at birth” makes it sound like some bureaucratic hospital error. An “XY woman” sounds more precise to me.
ABC has edited this beautifully so far. They are not making fun of him and Diane Sawyer is doing fine. I mean, it is a little confusing. He wants to be a women but he is not gay. So, naturally, she asked him if he was a lesbian. She asked in a respectful way. This program will be a touchstone event for anyone who struggles with these issues.
Why wouldn’t I want to watch, Pizzagirl? In part, because of fremdschämen (a very useful word the Germans invented). After all, I’ve seen it all before, over and over again – trans woman early in transition process volunteers to get interviewed on television because she thinks it will educate others; gets asked embarrassing and intrusive questions that no non-trans person would ever be asked; comes to regret the interview greatly in later years, etc. And in part, because I lived through transition myself almost ten years ago (not in public, thank God), and have seen friends transition, and have no desire to live through it (or watch it) again vicariously, on television or otherwise. Which is also why I haven’t watched “Transparent.”
I agree - I didn’t watch from the beginning but it’s very respectful. I have a friend whose 24 yo daughter has indicated the intention to transition to man and is asking to be called by a male name and presents physically as male, so I’m interested in the topic. The daughter was a lesbian and still expresses interest in women.
They are not exploiting him at all. This is being handled appropriately. It is educational. It is sensitive and honest and really good actually.
TatinG, I answered a question and gave a term that trans people use themselves. I’m not interested in having an argument with you, and frankly don’t care much whether you like the term or not, or what it sounds like to you. But I will point out that the overwhelming majority of people have never actually had their chromosomes tested, and only make assumptions about what they might be. And once someone transitions, they aren’t very relevant anyway, unless someone is planning to have children.
TatinG, “XY women” is typically used to describe women with androgen insensitivity disorder, in which a fetus with XY chromosomes is insensitive to male hormones, does not develop male genitalia and presents as female at birth. Also, they do not develop male secondary sex characteristics at puberty. So I think that term would create ambiguity.
(I had remembered that there was a syndrome where certain women had XY chromosomes but didn’t develop male genitalia or secondary sex characteristics but I had to google to remember the specific name).
(Also, I understand that language matters but I wish people would understand that other people of good faith and good intentions struggle with language issues and do not mean to insult by using terms like “biological man.” But I also understand that in all civil rights movements it is important for the folks who have experienced the past discrimination to define for themselves the preferred language. So we are all learning.)