@NYYFanNowMTdad - I am not a moderator, so cannot be sure - but the basic idea was that they were just being super nasty to other posters… I do know that one of them tried to come back with a different user name and got shut out again.
the terms of service detail things you can and cannot do on CC https://www.collegeconfidential.com/policies/terms-of-service/
Can I ask how she got into 6 colleges for MT while having the prescreen issue? Did she do colleges that don’t have prescreens? Thinking we need to add a few more to the list that are not prescreen schools and would love some advice.
@frisbee3 not that many schools have pre-screens. The majority of schools she auditioned for had none. I think she did six pre-screens out of 14 schools she auditioned for.
I agree that the number of schools a student applies to is a personal choice! There is no magic number and many factors weigh into the decision. Personal circumstances factor in as well. When I posted earlier, I was wearing both my parent hat and my college counselor hat. I don’t think I was being judgmental because I was simply offering a point of view. People ought to do what is best for them. Even as a college counselor, I offer advice and guidance to families, but ultimately every decision along the way is theirs to make because I see the student as owning the process. Thus, my advice in terms of number of schools varies, but generally speaking, 12-14 schools should be about right for many kids interested in pursuing MT.
But this just isn’t “let’s pick 14 colleges that offer MT” as I often see some posts on the MT Forum. First, each school on the list should be thoroughly researched and there should be a list of reasons why that particular school lands on the student’s list. They should be able to articulate at least five very specific reasons why they want to attend that school. (as an aside, I’m up to my ears working on essays and there are many kids who cannot articulate specific reasons why they are applying to that school or program for the Why X College/Program essay). I see posts or hear people say, “I don’t really want to go to that school (on my list)!” Why is the school on the list??? Of course, it is natural to have favorites and preferred schools, but no school should be on the college list that the student truly is not interested in attending. Further, I am not one of the people who says not to visit until admission offers are in hand. With my own kids, I planned for them to visit all the schools on their list in junior year. My older D did that, though saw one school in early fall of senior year. My MT D decided to graduate a year early (at the end of junior year) and so we had not visited all her schools in 10th grade, and I was still dealing with older D college process that year, and hadn’t planned on younger D graduating early. My MT D visited 4 of her 8 schools prior to applying, and then visited all 8 for on campus auditions. She got into her dream school and so in April we just went there for the accepted student event and were not in a mad frenzy to visit all her accepted schools (good thing too, because my D was in a hospital bed since right after her final audition and was getting her acceptances in the hospital and her first day out of a bed was the day we went to the accepted student even in mid-April. My older D was able to attend (these were ALL revisits) accepted student events at her 3 favorite acceptances to make the final decision. I don’t know how people fit in lots of visits in the month of April!
In terms of a balanced list, first, the list should be balanced just on the academic front: reach, match, safety. Artistically speaking, it is much harder to balance the odds because any school with an audition must be considered “reach” odds due to the extremely low acceptance rates. Still, there are some BFA programs that generally are the most competitive and some that are not as competitive, but it is far from an exact science, but some balance on that front needs to happen too. I highly suggest that every BFA in MT applicant (the ones who have decided they truly want a BFA), have two non-audition safety schools on their list (that means not just non-audition, but also academic safeties), that they like enough to attend. Thus, NO student should be shut out of college altogether and the “worst” case scenario is they get into their two safeties and have a choice. I have only had 2 students in the last 15 years who did not get into any BFA program, but they still had choices (some landed at Muhlenberg in the end). I don’t think I have ever had a student apply to more than 14 (maybe someone applied to 15) total colleges, and all but those couple of students have gotten into at least one BFA in MT program (usually more than one). I’m not judging those who apply to 20-30 BFA programs. Please do what works for you! Simply saying that I don’t think it is necessary to do that to yield college options. And I pointed out some drawbacks to that approach in my earlier post. That’s all.
@MTMom2019 …you raise the issue I brought up at an earlier point about whether or not a student is realistically in the ballpark of competitiveness to be admitted to a BFA in MT program, and how do you know this about your kid. And there are people at these auditions who truly are not artistically competitive for a BFA in MT. There just are. Still, there are TONS of very talented competitive applicants, and so it is nerve wracking for sure!! I think one should see if they have any benchmarks that indicate how their kid fares in bigger talent pools beyond their high school. These are not always easy to obtain, but you might have had these experiences (my own D had some)…such as if your D or S have been cast well in a more regional pool of talent, beyond the high school, and even better, several times. Another might be if your student has been part of adjudicated events (ie., All States, or in our State, there was an All-State scholarship for Voice). There are national things (ie., my D entered YoungArts). Some of you have state thespian events or regional MT awards (we didn’t have those). Some of your kids, including mine, attended summer programs that drew talented kids from throughout the country…how your D or S fared in that pool can be an eye-opener…it was to us initially. My kid had attended professional auditions several times in NYC and so that gave us another clue. (as an aside, my kid had auditioned at many levels over the years and so had a lot of audition experience, which I think helps, as auditioning itself is a skill). Even at our dance studio (drawing from a region), we had selective dance repertory troupes and so getting into these was another benchmark on that front. So, we went into the BFA in MT admissions process with some clue if she could compete among a much bigger and stronger pool of talent beyond our rural high school, where she always was the lead.
But what if you don’t have benchmarks? Many do not. Then, I would ask a professional in this field for an honest assessment of my child’s artistic skill set…particularly voice and acting, and that this professional has worked with others who have applied to BFA in MT programs (must be familiar with process and the level of talent of those who are admitted). I have sent a few clients to a MT coach to get such an assessment because I did not have enough to go on with their artistic competitiveness (nothing that showed that, for example, on the resume…which doesn’t mean that they don’t have what it takes!!!). I’m grateful, for example, with one student several years ago who did a LOT with MT (both training and shows) who I sent to this national MT coach to get an assessment, and the coach felt that this girl wasn’t competitive enough for MT but should audition for acting instead and this family took the advice! We reworked the college list. In the end, she did not get into BFA Acting programs but got into 4 very nice schools for theater and went to Muhlenberg. The assessment was invaluable in this case.
Please know that I respect and support ALL individual choices in this process both on this forum and even with my own clients. I’m a parent, but some of my posts involve putting on my professional hat of counselor. Please use or ignore what you wish in terms of any guidance or perspectives shared!!
@MTDad2025 and @soozievt I am glad you bring this up…so the 12-14 school list, would that be the net AFTER passing prescreens? I would think so. Because if not, you might only pass half of them…then your list is only 6 or seven schools. Probably not enough for a girl, right? Or maybe I am misunderstanding your advice?
I think if you do not pass a significant number of prescreens OR have some early auditions where you get the results early too that did not result in deferrals or acceptances, it is not too late to add to the college list or tweak it in some way. I recall one year having a boy who had several auditions on the earlier side where he got results (denials) and we refined his list a bit after that and added a little to it. But not passing SOME prescreens but passing others, should not alter the total number of applications because rejections are part of this process for everyone. And some schools do not even have prescreens. Prescreens, however, are simply finding out the rejection earlier than you would otherwise.
My D is definitely one of the one’s casting a very wide net, which is even more amazing because she has eliminated many schools, including some that are very highly thought of, for a variety of reasons. After clearing 1 of 6 prescreens thus far it seems like a good choice. But, she also wants to have choices based on the connection she feels with the faculty and students if possible - and for the one’s still on the list, many are there simply because she didn’t feel a reason to eliminate them as of yet. The fact she will be academically competitive for most and eligible for merit aid also helps. Sometimes it seems like too many, but knowing her, she needs to have choices.
Statistically, if you are a caucasian female, this process is going to be much harder for you, even if you are a triple threat. Last year we started with 14 schools but ended up with 18 auditions because we replaced failed pre-screen rejections with other applications as well as doing several walk-ins and applying to some of those walk-ins she felt like were a good fit. My D’s coach was shocked at some of the pre-screens she did not pass, but at the same time admitted it has no rhyme or reason. It was mentioned that submitting pre-screens late in the process can make specific schools more difficult because they are a little pickier as they fill the live audition spots. I believe males and unique types can get away with applying to less schools, assuming their list is balanced.
Assuming equal talent, I believe the resume matters for pre-screens and there is a reason they ask for it. There was plenty of antidotal information I got from our own experience and several other people that if you have won a national competition or have professional credits or worked at a well-known regional theatre it will help you move on to a live audition for some of these top schools, no matter your type (and you are competitively talented). Again, this advantage is more helpful for Caucasian females, who typically make up the majority of applicants.
My D had one coach who commented that it used to be that if you were a good singer at these top schools you would at least pass the pre-screen. She graduated from one of those top schools (about 6 years ago) where my D did not pass the pre-screen and she told me she is sure she would never make it past the pre-screen today.
Bottom line, number of schools needed is going to be different for a male dancer than a female causcasian. Supply and demand.
@frisbee3 - I get the concern about “following the rules” listed on prescreens. We’ve been nervous about that as well. (ie what if the right song cut is 1:05 instead of 1 minute. Does that mean a school will just NOT view it since she didn’t follow the rules? We found that calling the department at the school is very helpful. All the people we’ve spoken with at different schools have been more than happy to help and my D did get past what we consider her hardest prescreen and she had a song choice that was longer than what was listed in the requirements. When in doubt, call the school. That’s worked for us (and also helps to calm me down…lol…)
@frisbee3 In our case, I was not present when prescreens were filmed and nothing was timed. So suddenly when applying and uploading, we were reading “no more than a minute” with two songs and a monologue that were 70+ seconds each. (But 32 bar cuts so rules were at least attempted!) Went with it and passed (at least so far). I think that schools want kids with potential and they understand the cost and effort and difficulty of prescreens (at least the schools with the right motivation). I believe Texas State when they say “sing what you love.” They test your “rules-following” skills with their essay (which I believe is more in the student’s hands than a prescreen with space, accompanist, video quality, resources etc. that impact how hard it is to follow “rules.”) There are other things that are deal-breakers–for some it is a minimum ACT score (Michigan) or strong academics (NYU). But for most MT programs–they aren’t looking to eliminate any talent on a “technicality.”
But full disclosure–I didn’t sleep the night after the “overtime” submissions were uploaded so you are not alone! So maybe I’m learning I’m sweating the small stuff unnecessarily. And appreciate the viewpoint that they’ll end up where they belong in the end!
I wanted to clarify my statement about bogging down the system. I meant that towards people who are simply throwing applications at schools without any research or thought process behind the decision to apply. I totally get that the number is going to be very different for everyone. I just wanted to encourage being intentional with the list is all. I have absolutely ZERO judgement on the number of schools people are applying to. We are going with what works best for us, and everyone has absolutely every right to do the same for their situation. I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that I wasn’t being critical of anyone’s choices, but rather cautioning about doing it randomly without thinking about the “why” behind it.
@MTMom2019 @ac2680 @BrennaK I got the NYU email today with the link to the Artistic Review portal.
@love2share Thank you! My D got hers today, too!
Got the NYU email too and the Shenandoah prescreen back today and BOCO last Friday. Good luck to everyone in this process. It is difficult and confusing…wishing there was a standard for prescreens!
Does anyone has any information on Ohio University’s new MT program starting next fall? They have tons of stuff on their website as far as dates, but no information on how to register. My D has emailed multiple people multiple times asking, but hasn’t heard anything back. Anything would be helpful!
I do think prescreens change the game - in 2014 my D only had 1 (Ithaca), even though she applied to schools that have them now (CMU, Syracuse etc)
@ohiomtgirl22
My S attended Experience the Arts day earlier this month and auditioned for their program. You are right, It is a new BFA MT program.
Director’s info:Alan Patrick Kenny
Assistant Professor & Head of Musical Theater
Ohio University Theater Division
107 Putnam Hall
740.593.0505
kenny@ohio.edu
alanpatrickkenny.com
Not sure about audition dates, but hope contact info helps
@Kristiern1 Thank you!!
For what it’s worth, Alan Patrick Kenny used to be the program coordinator for the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point, so to get a feel for what that program might be like, it might be worth looking at old posts that reference UWSP.
Just wanted to share…if you are reporting SAT/ACT test scores to schools, you can save money with the following schools that accept self-reporting test scores through the school counselor. The following schools will accept test scores reported by the school counselor, either by the counselor placing the test scores on official school transcripts, or the counselor can email test scores to the school: Carnegie Mellon, Pace, DePaul, SUNY Purchase, Hartt, University of the Arts, and Point Park. I confirmed this by finding the info on the school’s website, or via email with admissions. Also, I’m sure there are other schools, but these schools are on my D’s list. Hope this helps!