<p>from the abject hypocrisy that killed it earlier.</p>
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<p>So much could be written about why this program even needed to be saved, but it is simply better to applaud that it got done, and be thankful that positions do evolve in an election year.</p>
<p>Isn’t there a political forum here? Shouldn’t this be there?</p>
<p>There are some pretty strong arguments on both sides of the OSP program. I’m not particularly interested in debating it in this particular forum, although I could probably end up doing so, but I feel as though I need to respond to say that while there are some things to be applauded about this program, there are also many good reasons for people to be skeptical.</p>
<p>No, there is no longer a political forum on CC. </p>
<p>The only “political” arguments that are allowed are the ones that directly relate to education.</p>
<p>Hah! I never noticed that there were no recent posts in that forum. I wonder why it’s still listed there?</p>
<p>I am very unclear from your original post whether you realize this is something up for debate and want to debate it, or if you think this is one of those obvious things and don’t see it as a two sided issue.</p>
<p>CuriousJane, this program has been debated on CC in the past. I believe that the positions and forces that led to the (once successful) attempts to make it vanish have been identified and well-documented. </p>
<p>I never run away from debating an issue such as this one; I am simply happy that our politicians found a way to reconcile the issues and work it out.</p>
<p>Allowing this program to be revived and properly funded is a victory for the … children. For some it will be viewed as a defeat, but then we know what’s important to them. Hint … not the children!</p>
<p>So, advocating for the continuation of a program that hasn’t been shown to raise student achievement, even when compared to some of the worst schools in the city, that puts kids into positions where they are evangelized to, and that doesn’t have any of the accountability structures of public schools is “for the children”?</p>
<p>We’ll have to agree to disagree.</p>
<p>“We’ll have to agree to disagree.”</p>
<p>No problem at all, especially since we would be bound to disagree about the accuracy of your statement. While the political soundbites might be that the program did not produce meaningful results, the underlying data demonstrate quite the opposite. </p>
<p>As usual, the “results” are a direct response to the bias and colored lenses one decides to wear. For some this programs robs money from the public school system; others might point out that the cost of the scholarship is well below what the school spends on average for the same student, and should represent a net cost saving. Of course, the real issue is not about the net cost or net savings, it is all about preserving the monopoly of public education at … all cost, since this is priceless to the people who have abused and exploited this unfortunate abdication of our responsibilities to education.</p>
<p>Xiggi,</p>
<p>I don’t appreciate you putting words in my mouth and making unfounded accusations, based on incorrect assumptions about me and my motives. </p>
<p>I will point out that it doesn’t cost $8,000 to educate a student in DC, whether or not they’re in private school. Instead, religious organizations, primarily the Catholic Church, are heavily subsidizing their education, in return for the ability to teach religious content in their classrooms. </p>
<p>I’ll also point out that it’s ironic that you’re hoping to break the monopoly on public education by focusing on the District, where 41% of public school students are educated in charters outside of DC Public Schools, by teachers who aren’t unionized, with excellent results, transparency, and accountability. </p>
<p>Finally, I’ll point out the irony that this decision only effects students in the District of Columbia, and yet DC parents are excluded from having a voice in it. If Congress feels so strongly about vouchers, I have to ask why they aren’t pushing for them across the nation, or in their home districts? Why are our kids the guinea pigs?</p>
<p>Can I ask your connections to DC education? Did you attend DC schools? Have you worked in them? Have you sent your own child(ren) to them?</p>
<p>Sounds like the same stuff going on as when a friend was in DC as a TFA about 10 years ago.
Expel the kids that you can’t reach.
Voila!
[Charters</a> quick to suspend, expel, council told - D.C. Schools Insider - The Washington Post](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-schools-insider/post/charters-quick-to-suspend-expel-council-told/2012/02/17/gIQAQRGlKR_blog.html]Charters”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-schools-insider/post/charters-quick-to-suspend-expel-council-told/2012/02/17/gIQAQRGlKR_blog.html)</p>
<p>CJ, can you show me data that says DC charter schools are doing better than public? Nationwide they are not any more effective than regular publics so I wonder what DC is doing right that other charter schools could do to be more effective.</p>
<p>ETA interesting link, ek. Maybe that helps answer my above question lol.</p>
<p>Just another piece of an all out attack on public education. What a great idea - creating a different set of haves and have nots. There is no evidence that charter schools are delivering a better product than other schools.</p>
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<p>Say what?</p>
<p>I did not place words in your mouth nor made unfounded accusations. If it was not clear the first time, I wrote that I would dispute the accuracy of your statement were we to debate this issue. My second paragraph was entirely about how different factions interpret the same data to fit their agenda. What is the problem with that statement?</p>
<p>As far as cost, do you mind telling us what the cost per pupil is in the public system in DC.</p>
<p>I’ll come back with statistics and information, but right now I’ve got to get ready for work, but I wanted to address xiggi’s questions.</p>
<p>In your first post you refer to “abject hypocrisy”</p>
<p>In your third post, after I’d identified myself as not in support of the law, you included the following statement:</p>
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</p>
<p>Pretty clearly an implication that you know my priorities. You then wrote:</p>
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</p>
<p>Again, a pretty strong attack on the integrity of those of us who take a different position.</p>
<p>CuriousJane, you have a rather peculiar way to look at this. </p>
<p>If you choose to identify yourself with the groups I “addressed” in my comments, that is really your problem. From my vantage point, it appears that you would disagree with my position that the program was worth saving, but you also said that we would have to agree to disagree as there might be opinions that differ from mine. </p>
<p>However, since I do not know a thing about you, I could not possibly know about your support or allegiance with the people or groups I (obviously) criticized for playing political games with the program, and for fighting any similar programs with all their might. </p>
<p>Were you to look up prior debates on this thorny issue, you would know exactly which are the persons and groups I did indict. I have never been circular or indirect about this. And it is really not that hard to figure out that it was not directed at you, unless you really want to weave my posts into a charade.</p>
<p>Again, I am happy to agree to disagree on the soundness of bringing this program back to a semblance of life. Debating this is really not a high priority of mine.</p>
<p>Sorry to drag this back up to the top, but I feel like I promised some answers.</p>
<p>EK: I’m not going to pretend that DC Charter schools are perfect. There is still a huge amount of room for improvement in the Charter system, and with so many new schools, there are lots of growing pains. The article you shared is a good example of that. However, DC has worked hard to establish accountability structures, so that people are noticing and acting on things like the article you linked to. The Office of the State Superintendent of Education (yes, ironic that we have a “state office” but no “state”) and the Public Charter School Board gather data and share that data publicly, holding schools accountable and forcing change. </p>
<p>Another big difference between DC charters and Voucher schools, as well as charters elsewhere, is that with very few exceptions charters aren’t able to pick and choose their students. There are also limits on what schools can do to attract certain kinds of students. In general, schools are allowed to implement practices that make them more attractive to students considered high need. For example we’ve got a charter school that markets itself as being a place for adjudicated youth, and schools that target low income kids in their recruitment. On the other hand, schools that have proposed policies that discourage disadvantaged or high needs kids from applying, such as having kids repeat their entry grade if they don’t make a certain test score, or not serving free/reduced meals, have had their charters denied. As a result charters in DC enroll kids with all kinds of disabilities, with all kinds of behavioral histories, and with a wide variety of academic levels. Sometimes they struggle with that, as evidenced by the article, but it’s still different from a private school that can simply say “no, you can’t come”.</p>
<p>RGE: Here’s one site that I feel gives one picture of the difference: [Education</a> Policy Dashboard | FocusDC](<a href=“http://focusdc.org/education-policy-dashboard]Education”>http://focusdc.org/education-policy-dashboard) </p>
<p>It’s fun, you can play around with the dashboards, choosing different groups and comparing DCPS to DC Charters. DC Charters come out ahead across the board, with a few minor exceptions for white students. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, this particular dashboard gives information about test scores and graduation rates for various subgroups and for charters as a whole, but it doesn’t give value added scores, which are a measure of how much a student’s scores increase year to year. A good example of the importance of Value Added Scores work, in DC, would be comparing the scores at Benjamin Banneker, DCPS’s IB magnet program, with those of Thurgood Marshall, a Charter in one of the poorer areas of the city. Banneker has higher scores, with over 90% of their 10th graders “passing” in both reading and math. That’s not really surprising for a school that has an admissions test and only admits the strongest students. On the other Marshall, which often enrolls 9th graders reading on 2nd or 3rd grade levels, and in two years gets 65% of them to grade level in reading, and 75% in math? To me that’s hugely impressive. I have seen some great sites that will let you play around with value added scores, sorting data many different ways. Unfortunately, the ones I can find today don’t compare traditional public to public charter as a whole, so they won’t answer your questions. I’m afraid you’ll have to take my word on it that the Value-Added data is more impressive than the test scores alone.</p>
<p>As to why? Why do DC Charters out perform traditional public, when that’s not the case in other jurisdictions? That’s a great question. One reason is that the bar is low. We’re comparing DC charter schools with DC public schools, and DC public schools don’t score well. </p>
<p>The second is that DC Charter school law is pretty strict and demanding. I often times read things in various places where people talk about their local charter schools, and I see so many things that wouldn’t fly here. For example, I know that some states allow charter schools to have tuition charging preschools and give preference to those students in admissions – that would never be approved in DC, and gives huge preference to affluent families. There are plenty of places where charter schools are allowed to exclude kids with certain disabilities and send them back to public schools. Again, that isn’t how it works here. The result is that charters in DC are more accountable.</p>
<p>Thirdly, charter school in DC is a pretty “mainstream” thing to do. 41% of public school kids are in charters. In some areas, it seems like charters are an infrequent choice. Families might choose charters because their kid is really struggling in public school. The result might be that there are a higher proportion of struggling kids in charters. Charters in those areas may also have trouble attracting stable communities of families. In DC Charters are often the first choice for families, and in many neighborhoods they’re the default. In our old neighborhood, I didn’t know a single kid in a traditional public school. There were 2 kids on our block who attended private schools, and every other kid around attended one charter or another.</p>
<p>Finally, if you believe that competition improves education, then the sheer number of charters in DC will contribute to the level of competition. In contrast, you could also argue that charters in DC tend to work together. I know I’m frequently calling staff at other charters or having them call me to ask “What do you use to teach . . . . ?” or “I heard you’ve gotten good results in parent engagement, what’s your secret?” There’s a lot of sharing of best practices, and with so many schools innovating, it’s likely that someone will hit on something good, and the collaborative culture of the charter school world means that “something good” will be shared and replicated. </p>
<p>Those are just my theories as an “insider” of course. Sorry this was so long.</p>