Philosophers Don’t Get Much Respect, But Their Earnings Don’t Suck
By FARAI CHIDEYA:
Excerpt: "The fortunes of philosophers — or at least philosophy majors — are a mixed bag, ranging from college teaching adjuncts who can barely pay their rent to tech entrepreneurs. In general, humanities and liberal arts majors tend to have high unemployment rates (9.4 percent, according to a 2014 Georgetown University study), and within that group, philosophy and religious study majors tend to do a little worse, with a 10.8 percent jobless rate, according to the study.
But philosophy majors also have some of the highest scores in the LSAT and GMAT — the required tests for entry to law and business school respectively, according to figures from the Educational Testing Service (ETS). And when it comes to earnings for people who only have undergraduate degrees, philosophy majors have the fourth-highest median earnings, $81,200 per year, out-ranking business and chemistry majors, according to the ETS."
Of course the point really is: what you major in as an undergraduate doesn’t necessarily say much about your future career line. Another point is: students who major in philosophy tend to be pretty smart, and they can use those smarts in many ways after graduation.
I did not care one whit what my kids majored in. I “knew” they’d find a way in the economy because they were smart and motivated. As it turned out the older one stopped with a BA, but has gone on to a spectacular career. The younger one went on to an advanced degree and is taking longer to establish a career.
The fact checking sites do seem to be saying that philosophy majors make more money than welders.
However, I would guess that the second part of his statement, “We need more welders and less [sic: fewer] philosophers,” is true in that there are likely more nationwide jobs for welders. (Not that I’m a big fan of the politician in question.) Local industry in our area does have trouble finding people who are qualified, but not overqualified, to work in a machine shop running CNC routers, mills, etc.
btw- philosophy and math have historical links- many have done both. Makes sense that math major son took 3 philosophy courses- including a whole semester on Nietzsche. It requires intelligence to do the thinking of philosophy, so those with that major are likely to succeed at things they do.
Many skilled trades are needed occupations- supply and demand helps determine the pay scale. Earning money is often related to the value to society achieved. Thinking without adding value wouldn’t earn much, if anything.
My prof spent a month taking us through Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem in one of my philosophy courses. That was the first class where I just rolled over and accepted that I flat out wasn’t smart enough to understand some things. Quantum mechanics, parallel distributed computing, compiler theory - no problems at all. Durn philosophy classes… way over my head.
Anyway, in today’s economy I think I’d rather have a philosophy degree than a high school degree plus welding experience.
re post #7. I assume you value education over having a job. Welders are in demand, even well credentialed college grads-with advanced degrees- don’t always find jobs. btw- being a welder does not preclude college or assume a person is less intelligent.
“re post #7. I assume you value education over having a job. Welders are in demand, even well credentialed college grads-with advanced degrees- don’t always find jobs. btw- being a welder does not preclude college or assume a person is less intelligent.”
They way Rubio presented it was essentially, “philosophy degree worthless, welding good”. My comment about “today’s economy” is with regards to manufacturing jobs moving overseas and a college degree being more valuable in terms of versatility than a single tradeskill job like welding. A college degree will also generally have a much higher salary cap and will open many doors, whereas welding has a fairly low cap and is a very specific skill.
Of course a welder can get a college degree. And manual labor says nothing about one’s intelligence. I said nothing and made no implication with regards to those notions. I have made pizzas, done woodworking and photography, sold shoes, and worked on cars. I place a high personal value on tradeskills and manual labor. But in an either/or scenario as laid out by Rubio in an economy wtih a shrinking manufacturing base and a widening gap between white-collar vs blue-collar wages, I would choose the college degree.
And of course the philospher can also learn welding. I know I would love to
Wjhile I’m a big fan of Phil, the anecdotes on the article just don’t support the pov.
Reid Hoffman, for example, was an undergrad at Stanford where he earned a BS in Symbolic Systems and Cognitive Science. Clearly, that has nothing to do with the point that Kasich was trying to make.
I have no doubt that Phil majors do well on the LSAT, which requires a lot of reading of really dry material. But that is the point: the Phil major just set them up to go get another degree, so they then could get a job making bank. The question is, what were those Phil majors doing before they attend LS?
Probably similar types of things that graduates in many other majors do, including jobs that tend to look for bachelor’s degrees but do not require any specific major or college course work. For these types of jobs, the practice in both humanistic thinking and logical thinking may be advantageous for philosophy majors compared to many other majors (this may also be a selection effect in that students who do not like or who are not good at both are less likely to major in philosophy).
One of our grads who received her MFA in 2014 was a philosophy major in undergrad. She is now kicking major butt on the contemporary art scene. Not only is she successful, but she is happy. Can’t ask for much more!
if I had a kid in college who said they want to major in philosophy I would say remember when you graduate you will be paying your own bills and Starbucks is not to fun to work at!
I know lots of philosophy grads who do the very well in law school and in their subsequent legal careers. They’re smart, and they’re very well trained in doing the kinds of things that good lawyers need to do, like careful parsing and critical analysis of dense texts, making structured and logical arguments, spotting ambiguities in texts and gaps or logical fallacies in arguments, expressing themselves with clarity and precision both orally and in writing, etc. Law schools will accept applicants from any major, but many people think a rigorous undergraduate education in philosophy is some of the very best preparation you can do for law school and the legal profession.
I have a kid who was theater/Russian double major. Theater is her passion. She auditions and gets parts and works as an actor, but it’s not enough to live comfortably. Because she loves what she does, she makes it work. She teaches drama classes part-time at a private school in Philly, she also teaches a Shakespeare class in an inner city school (that is a volunteer gig), and she is an assistant for a directing class at a college outside of Philly. Other things she does to make money–tv commercials and working at a coffee shop. She’s young, and for now, she’s happy. So people don’t have to end up in the basement. I know it’s hard, but the world has changed and kids coming out of college, no matter what their major, need to be proactive as well as creative about getting a job.
