<p>Interesting article in The Economist both for how it’s being addressed (successfully and otherwise) in Britain and for noting that it’s not just an issue in the US.</p>
<p>[Why black children underachieve](<a href=“Bad attitudes”>Bad attitudes)</p>
<p>** "Blacks seem to do badly largely because they tend to live in bad neighbourhoods with bad schools. **</p>
<p>Well, there’s a lightbulb moment. How do you fix that?</p>
<p>The article actually is about Afro Caribbeans in England. </p>
<p>In the US, actually Afro-Caribbeans do very well. I believe this even is true of many Afro-Caribbeans who live in bad neighborhoods. It’s African-Americans who do not do that well, including those in well off neighborhoods. For instance, even well off African Americans still do not do that well as as group on the SAT when their scores are compared to students of other races who are from similar economic backgrounds.</p>
<p>I don’t know very much about Afro-Caribbeans in England. Is their socioeconomic background and family structure similar to that of the Afro-Caribbeans in the United States?</p>
<p>MotherofTwo- My personal experience is that they are economically better off than most African Americans. And, to NSM’s point, they do very well on SATs. It’s odd that those is England show such a different perspecive. </p>
<p>Could it be that those who are in the US are here for education and those in Englad are there for other reasons?</p>
<p>Thanks. That is what I was wondering when I asked the question. I am aware of the high level of achievement and general emphasis on education of the Afro-Caribbeans in the U.S. and I wondered if there was something different culturally about those who live in England.</p>
<p>The Economist article is based on well known research in the UK re: the relative underachievement of Afro-Caribbeans in that country compared to Asians and white Britons. In fact, low-income whites in the UK outperform moderate- and middle-income Afro-Caribbeans. There are no material differences between Afro-Caribbeans in the US and those in the UK, in fact many Afro-Caribbeans in the US have relatives in the UK. Similar research is available in Japan re: the relative underachievement of Koreans versus native Japanese, notwithstanding that Koreans in the US perform quite well. </p>
<p>What this points to is the salience of the research of Shelby Steele and others on the effect of a group’s social status on its academic performance. Steele demonstrated that stigmatized groups underperform and the greater the stigma the greater the underperformance. Koreans are not a stigmatized group in the US, but they are in Japan. Afro-Caribbeans enjoy a somewhat higher social status than African-Americans in the US, thus their stronger academic performance.</p>
<p>Koreans in Japan are no less committed to education and hard work than those in the US. Afro-Caribbeans in the US are no more committed to education and hard work than those in the UK. But their relative social status in those countries differ and thus their educational outcomes.</p>
<p>That is very interesting information, thanks.</p>
<p>In the US, I think it’s always been understood that Afro-Caribbeans and Africans usually perform better than their African American counterparts, for various reasons. Of course environment is a large factor in the statistics on performance, IQ tests, etc. In my home town(i’m from Long Island btw), my HS had a very large black population, maybe about 70%. It’s a very middle class town, not that many white collar job holders, but middle class nonetheless. Anyway, last year, my graduating class had a 100% graduation rate, the first in our district of five schools, the other 4 of which are either very diverse(one of our schools is the most diverse school on Long Island) or majority white. We regularly send people to top schools. Last year, we had about 8 people go to NYU, 1 to Emory, 1 to Penn-Wharton, 1(me) to Georgetown, 2 to special BA/BS/MD programs, 1 accepted to Cornell(but went to the BA/MD program), 1 to Boston College, and more. We are a nationall recognized school of excellence(as are most schools on Long Island,lol) We have a large Caribbean population as well. I think that many people forget that not all blacks are the same, just like how all whites aren’t the same. We have various cultures that are included under the name “Black/African”, just like how there are various cultures under the name “White/European”. I think that the African American culture tends to emphasize monetary success and other areas that don’t necessarily relate to academics and the value of education. So, I think that there needs to be a renewal of the traditional values that should be common to all cultures of humanity. Of course this will take a long time, but I do believe that there is hope for this to be accomplished, esp. with the advancement of technology and media.</p>
<p>“What this points to is the salience of the research of Shelby Steele and others on the effect of a group’s social status on its academic performance. Steele demonstrated that stigmatized groups underperform and the greater the stigma the greater the underperformance.”</p>
<p>I think that the above info is right except that the researcher was Shelby Steele’s twin brother Claude Steele, who researched “stereotype threat.” Seems I have read that Shelby and Claude view things very differently and don’t even speak to each other. Shelby is very conservative.</p>
<p>Yes, “stereotype threat” was researched and coined by Claude Steele.</p>
<p>Here are some quotes from him from an article that I had archived. Unfortunately, I didn’t make note of the url, but you probably can find the whole thing by googling.,</p>
<p>Q. “Explain it in terms of what it means to a black kid growing up in America. Why this and why did you use the word threat? What is it?”</p>
<p>(Steele) "By the term “stereotype threat” what we have in mind is simply being in a situation where a negative stereotype about your group could apply. As soon as that’s the case, you know that you could be judged in terms of that stereotype or treated in terms of it or you might inadvertently do something that would confirm the stereotype.</p>
<p>And if you care very much about doing well in that situation, the prospect of being treated stereotypically there is going to be upsetting and disturbing to you. And if you’re a member of a group whose intellectual abilities are negatively stereotyped, this threat might occur. </p>
<p>That negative stereotype will be applicable to you right in the middle of an important standardized test. And our general reasoning was that this threat, this prospect of confirming a stereotype or of being seen that way would be distracting enough, upsetting enough, to undermine a person’s performance right there in the middle of a test. …</p>
<p>Q. "It sounds like what you were saying was that it was the black students who considered themselves good students who actually are affected the most? Did that surprise you? "</p>
<p>Steele "That is the thing our research has revealed to us, something that we really didn’t think of when we went into this. It has become vividly clear to us and other people who do this research that the effects of the stereotype are poignantly most powerful for the students who are the strongest and the most motivated. </p>
<p>For them, functioning at the frontier of their skills with this prospect of being seen, stereotypically, [to be] over their heads, they’re the ones who experience a disruption and so forth.
… That it’s the academic vanguard of the group as opposed to the rear guard of the group that is experiencing the threat we’re talking about. And experiencing that threat can be thought of as having to pay a sort of pioneer tax: the woman who is really advanced in math, the black student who is really doing well and is sort of in a top flight, high pressure college or graduate program or professional program or something. That person, because they’re having to deal with this threat and the prospect of it is paying a certain tax to be there that other students are not having to pay. "</p>
<p>This is fascinating,</p>
<p>thanks swbutterfly and Northstarmom</p>
<p>I seem to remember reading research a few years ago that looked at race and SE status in the US. Essentially what they found was that the percentage of the population of low SE status seemed to be pretty highly correlated to academic success. There seemed to be a threshhold, I think of around 30-40%. Low SE black students in school with less than the threshhold poverty level did better academically than their counterparts in the schools with much higher poverty. The researchers even noted that when black students in high poverty schools move to lower poverty schools, they improved their academic performance. </p>
<p>The implication is that we should try to make schools a mix of SE groups if we want to positively impact the academic of minority students. Of course it is not all that simple and will not be the answer for all kids, but it is worth looking at.</p>
<p>Here’s a link to that Claude Steele article on stereotype threat:<a href=“http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/interviews/steele.html[/url]”>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/sats/interviews/steele.html</a></p>
<p>And an interesting snippet on the brothers Steele:
" But Steele’s identical twin brother, Shelby Steele, is skeptical [of Claude’s stereotype threat theories].
In his book, “The Content of Our Character,” he writes of his concept of
“racial vulnerability.” Black students suffer from an “internalized”
inferiority complex, according to Steele. He urges black students to
work harder and not claim the status of “victims.” Claude Steele
dismisses his brother’s theories. “It’s the perfect victim-blaming
theory, similar to the ‘ethnic self-hatred’ theories of the 1940s and
'50s,” he retorted. Both Steele brothers currently are working on the
Stanford campus." <a href=“http://ira.rose-hulman.edu/E-AIR/air/246.txt[/url]”>http://ira.rose-hulman.edu/E-AIR/air/246.txt</a></p>
<p>Yes, Northstarmom, you’re right - its Claude not Shelby. Thanks for the correction. I’d love to be a fly on the wall during a holiday meal with the Steele brothers!</p>
<p>From Steele, C.M., American Psychologist (June 1997) p. 623:</p>
<p>“Ogbu (1986) reported an interesting fact: Among caste-like minorities in industrial and nonindustrial nations throughout the world (e.g., the Maoris of New Zealand, the Baruku of Japan, the Harijans of Indian, the Oriental Jews of Israel, and the West Indians of Great Britain), there exists the same 15-point IQ gap between them and the nonstigmatized members of their society as exists between Black and White Americans. These groups also suffer poorer school performance, higher dropout rates, and related behavior problems. Moreover, the gaps appear even when the stigmatized and the nonstigmatized are of the same race, as in the case of the Baraku and other Japanese. What these groups share that is capable of explaining their deficits is a caste-like status that, through stereotypes in their societies, stigmatizes their intellectual abilities – sowing the seeds, I suggest, of their school dis-identification [underperformance].”</p>