The End of the Ivy League As We Know It?

Parents Forum
1

<p>

</p>

<p>Going to a state schools make so much sense in retrospect. Wish I had gone there instead of going to UCLA :rolleyes:</p>

<p>On a positive note perhaps the East coast will finally begin embracing their public universities as the West coast has done with much success.</p>

<p>[The</a> End of the Ivy League As We Know It? - Yahoo! Finance](<a href=“http://finance.yahoo.com/news/end-ivy-league-know-101800636.html;_ylt=AhDqzeFw7bjYhdAfRoG.zbj06IdG;_ylu=X3oDMTNkY25scThtBG1pdANGaW5hbmNlIEluZmluaXRlIEJyb3dzZSBTcGxpdARwa2cDNTVkODQyN2EtOTFmYS0zNTVhLWEzYjAtYzgxMDk1NzJjZTFmBHBvcwNsNwRzZWMDbWVkaWFpbmZpbml0ZWJyb3dzZWxpc3Q-;_ylg=X3oDMTNqbTRuZDJuBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDMjgzYWMxYzctYTEwMC0zNWYxLTk0NTktZjYwNzZlN2VjNDlhBHBzdGNhdANwZXJzb25hbGZpbmFuY2V8Y2FyZWVyLWVkdWNhdGlvbgRwdANzdG9yeXBhZ2U-;_ylv=3]The”>http://finance.yahoo.com/news/end-ivy-league-know-101800636.html;_ylt=AhDqzeFw7bjYhdAfRoG.zbj06IdG;_ylu=X3oDMTNkY25scThtBG1pdANGaW5hbmNlIEluZmluaXRlIEJyb3dzZSBTcGxpdARwa2cDNTVkODQyN2EtOTFmYS0zNTVhLWEzYjAtYzgxMDk1NzJjZTFmBHBvcwNsNwRzZWMDbWVkaWFpbmZpbml0ZWJyb3dzZWxpc3Q-;_ylg=X3oDMTNqbTRuZDJuBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDMjgzYWMxYzctYTEwMC0zNWYxLTk0NTktZjYwNzZlN2VjNDlhBHBzdGNhdANwZXJzb25hbGZpbmFuY2V8Y2FyZWVyLWVkdWNhdGlvbgRwdANzdG9yeXBhZ2U-;_ylv=3)</p>

2

<p>No, it isn’t the end.</p>

<p>There will always be people like Thiel, Gates, Jobs and Zuckerberg who either don’t graduate or go to a non-Ivy league and do exceptionally well. And that is a great thing.</p>

<p>As long as they provide a quality education and a quality alumni network experience, the Ivys will do just fine.</p>

3

<p>UCLA is a state school, right? So you are good.</p>

4

<p>There will always be people who HAVE to have the prestige of an Ivy on their resume. And there are those of us (far more in number) who don’t care or don’t see the potential “value” (which, as this article points out, is disputable). Of course in a few fields, such as investment banking, the name of the college is important. But for most, it doesn’t matter. Only in the rarefied air of CC does this seem to come as a shock to people. :)</p>

5

<p>“I’m a state school guy. I didn’t go to the Ivy League; I didn’t go to Stanford or UCLA. I’m a CPA who went to a state school, and I run the largest wealth management firm in the world.” - John Thiel, head of wealth management at Merrill Lynch</p>

<p>Great quote! John Theil is obviously one of the people who realized early on that “the emperor has no clothes.” </p>

<p>One of my very favorite soap box topics is the most popular ranking system for colleges and universities… USNews. Like the two weavers in the Hans Christian Andersen tale, USNews has duped most of us.</p>

<p>It is nothing more than subjective nonsense… surveyed opinions from “educators” about schools. The survey is pointedly about ranking schools, so there is no masking the perceptions, prejudices, and beliefs with regards to these institutions. People familiar with the scientific method should be aghast. There is little to no objectivity in these surveys.</p>

<p>The most appalling fact for me is there isn’t one single metric in that ranking system to measure the success of a graduate. </p>

<p>USNews wraps themselves in the respect by suggesting a large part of their ranking is based on data from the Carnegie Education Foundation, but the Carnegie data isn’t compiled in a way to rank schools and was never meant to rank schools. USNews subjectively interprets the Carnegie data. In essence, USNews finds whatever they want to find in that data.</p>

<p>This is why you don’t see much movement in their ranking system. Schools can loose key staff and key research funding/grants, and nothing happens to their ranking. Large percentages of their graduates can go jobless and nothing happens to their ranking. Large construction projects, which disrupt large portions of (or the entire) school can be in place for years and nothing happens to their ranking. Wholesale administrative changes can occur and nothing happens to their ranking.</p>

<p>On the other side of the spectrum, we have Bloomberg and Payscale.com, which completely ignore anything other than the success of a school’s graduates. Although also survey based, the data is not gathered in the context of school ranking, so it stays objective… perceptions and long held beliefs about different kinds of schools do not factor into the database. </p>

<p>Sadly the USNews ranking system will remain the one most people use because it is comprised of opinions from “educators.” And our “educators” will make sure it is the only one ever cited in our High Schools, regardless of the fact it does not measure, in any way, the ultimate success of the student.</p>

6

<p>Gee, one wealthy guy means the end of the Ivy League? Uh, newsflash: Plenty of wealthy people out there.</p>

7

<p>No. It’s not.</p>

8

<p>

</p>

<p>Payscale.com reports, at least those which are generally accessible, are insufficiently controlled by such factors as college major to be all that useful to a given student selecting colleges.</p>

9

<p>Oh, silly. His parents probably went to state schools, and now he does. There has been no change in that since 1980, except that to their core market of full-pays, the Ivies have not been this cheap in 30 years.</p>

10

<p>It’s true. Harvard is joining the SEC, and with that endowment, they should be able to outbid both Auburn and Bama for players.</p>

11

<p>Everybody knows that UCLA is a private basketball academy.</p>

12

<p>

</p>

<p>And yet still 2X-4X as expensive as one can make a lowly State School. As for that ‘core market of full pays’ I say…you go for it…stay away from the UC’s and make it easier for the less panic driven out here in the wild wild west.</p>

13

<p>Oh, yawn. Once again we hear the usual nonsense about how only prestige hounds are interested in Ivies, about how “success” of graduates–with the strong suggestion that the only type of success that matters is making money–is the only measure or possible virtue of a school, and on and on.</p>

<p>BTW, the prestige of the Ivies long predates the existence of USNWR . I am not a fan of rankings in general, but I would suggest that if anything those rankings May have served to bring a broader range of schools to a broader public.</p>

14

<p>Just want to point out that a lot of the money they manage actually belongs to graduates of Ivies and other top private colleges.</p>

15

<p>I would like to know who says the Ivy League “as we know it” EVER existed? And who is surprised that a top Merrill Lynch executive is not an Ivy Leaguer? None of the institutions that might be represented by today’s Merrill Lynch – Merrill Lynch, Bank of America,
NCNB – was in any respect an Ivy- or Northeast-oriented company. Call me when the CEO of Blackstone Group says something similar.</p>

16

<p>Absolutely. No one should apply. Leave that spot for my kid.</p>

17

<p>Agree with JHS; Merrill Lynch is the “state school” version of Wealth Management companies. It caters to the masses via Bank of America, and that is why it is so big. This is not meant to be a bash on state schools or Merrill Lynch, they are both good, but they seem to serve a similar customer base.</p>

18

<p>^That “similar customer base” is the economic engine of our nation. Which is why consolidating wealth in the hands of fewer people, while the middle class falls further and further behind, is failing to produce the growth we need to compete against other countries. Do we need wealthy investors to help start and expand business? Of course. But we also need people of more modest means to be able to buy things and invest in their own futures. </p>

<p>I can’t say I’m surprised by some of the comments here.</p>

19

<p>

</p>

<p>It’s a perfect analogy, I guess, as long as one conveniently forgets that the “state school” bit of the company had to be cajoled by the government to spend $50 billion to bail out the wanna-be Ivy piece of the company and forestall another I-bank failure. My guess is that a lot of the long-time state school proles in Charlotte would have more valuable stock options today if they’d never heard of Merrill. But, other than that, you were spot on.</p>

20

<p>Please ignore the parts of this piece that discuss politics in the interest of keeping the thread open. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>[Brian</a> Ross: Poison Ivy Leagues: Should America Look Elsewhere for Its Leaders?](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>Poison Ivy Leagues: Should America Look Elsewhere for Its Leaders? | HuffPost College)</p>