<p>I think the students trained in most engineering programs are well trained to do the work that’s out there.</p>
<p>Elite schools do seen to have a rich history of nurturing innovators and entrepreneurs that create things that didn’t exist before. That is a different ball game then building stuff that’s already been done.</p>
<p>Just to add and clarify, I do think that IB and AP do help the academic kids in high school. And it is nice to be with other kids that like to do well in school. I think it is also great that some kids want to go on and be primarily with other very high achieving academic kids in college. That is what some kids need and want. But, I see no need to disparage other people’s choices, state schools, etc. It’s pretty bad out there when a Harvard kid is actually laughing at what a Julliard kid is up to. Julliard is certainly elite in it’s own right. If elite school kids are laughing at Julliard kids , I can only imagine what fun they’re having with state school kids. Very sad. Humility goes a long way.</p>
<p>My son was not as athletically gifted in basketball as some of his teammates. But he recognized it, always tried to do his best and supported his teammates. He did get a little dispirited sometimes with more than his fair share of bench sitting , but handled it well. Volleyball was really more where his skills were. His basketball teammates were not, in general, as academically inclined , but they had their own goals. A couple of his teammates did do well enough academically and athletically to go to college and play. One of his teammates also played football, went on to college and is now a multi million dollar player in the NFL. We are very happy for him. It’s great that there are lots of paths to success out there.</p>
<p>And yes, Madaboutx,elite schools have a rich history in engineering advances. I agree. You would also be surprised though at the level of research and innovation that is also being done at lots of places, not just what people here consider “elite” schools.</p>
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<p>Were you dispirited in high school? Presuming that Mizzou takes approximately the top third or less of high school students for its frosh class, it would mean that Mizzou would be less dispiriting than high school, unless you went to an academically elite high school.</p>
<p>Elite schools are for certain kids. It’s shame for anyone to down anyone.</p>
<p>I think fit is the ideal terminology. The best school is the best fit for a student.</p>
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<p>I doubt that was the case among the J-school majors as I’ve heard from several graduates and parents of graduates that those who concentrated in the party/beer majors at the expense of everything else tend to get expelled without hesitation. </p>
<p>One case in particular involved a parent whose child was expelled from Mizzou’s J-school after a year because she partied/had too much fun 10+ years ago. Ended up working a series of service/retail jobs since and at 30 is only just starting to get herself together to go back to college. </p>
<p>As for being dispirited in general if one’s surrounded by a critical mass of academically uninclined, unmotivated, remedial, strongly inclined towards the beer/party majors at the expense of all else, etc type students…I can believe it. </p>
<p>This happened to many HS classmates who found themselves in our local public colleges when they were at their nadir academically…and they voted with their feet by transferring out to more academically rigorous institutions like Reed and Columbia.</p>
<p>sevmom - </p>
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<p>To be clear, my son is not a social jerk. He did not LOL, it was more inwardly thinking that he expected more of Julliard and that compared to a very comparable program at Harvard, the kids weren’t learning near as much. It was a surprise.</p>
<p>OTOH, while my son was on a very academic IB track through HS, his passion was singing and I can assure you that not everyone in the choir had ambitions to go to an elite school. One of his friends had a GPA less than 3.0, but scored about 2200 on the SAT. He was an auto-admit to BSU, so he filed his senior year with classes like remedial math.</p>
<p>Oh good lord, cobrat, I went to hs in the actual state of Missouri so I think I probably knew a few more kids headed to Mizzou than you did. It’s unbelievable that you really knew all that many.</p>
<p>I’m actually impressed by all the people that cobrat seems to know and his examples. You never know what’s coming and it does keep it interesting. In terms of his friends that went to the local state school and then transferred. Good for them. Their first school was obviously not the best fit for them.</p>
<p>Perhaps it may be the case that some high achieving students would be dispirited by attending a less selective university with lots of lower achieving students, even if such a university did have a significant number of other high achieving students.</p>
<p>But such students may not be able to have any true safety schools that they actually like, since anything that could be a safety would have lots of lower achieving students that they want to avoid.</p>
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<p>I went to a “good” suburban public high school, not an academically elite one. Dispirited isn’t the right word, but no, I did not fit in with the masses, just with the smart kids. It was exhilarating to go off to college and be with a student body that uniformly valued smarts, academic interests, and so forth. And I’m sorry, I do think that is harder to find at most larger state schools.</p>
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<p>My sister went to KU. Do tell! How many graduates of KU do you know? I’m quite sure you’re much more plugged into large state schools in the midwest than those of us who attended high schools in the midwest where most kids went on to the state schools. In fact, I even bet you know more Northwestern grads than I do!! LOL.</p>
<p>To return to the original topic: of course a few exceptional people not going to the ivy league is not going to be the end of it. That has always been the case. They ivy league has always been most helpful to rich, and smart-but-not-brilliant kids.</p>
<p>Engineering and honors programs at some of the top state schools are quite competitive in terms of the caliber of the students attending. So larger percentages of these classes show much more uniformity since their GPAs, ranks and test scores tend to be more clustered.</p>
<p>At UT, it takes one to be in top 2 or 3% of the class and scores above 2100/31 to be even considered for honors in engineering, Plan II (liberal arts honors), or science honors. Since they are strictly going by numerical metrics as opposed to a holistic process, I suggest there is a lot more uniformity in the academic skills in this group of students than any top school admitting using holistic processes.</p>
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<p>You’d may be surprised at how Mizzou’s undergrad J-school program’s reputation is renowned enough that it attracts students from all over…including the NE.</p>
<p>Isn’t Mizzou Journalism in top 5 or something? I remember a local kid going there over USNWR top 15 school. I did not know about the program back then and wondered about why that kid would go to another state school OOS.</p>
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<p>Several older parents and folks I know who work in journalism would go so far as to say it’s #1 for undergrad Journalism…including some who work for publications like the NYT…</p>
<p>Sigh. I am not “surprised” by Mizzou’s undergrad j-school reputation. What I am surprised at is that you would really know more than a handful of Mizzou people, compared to me who actually lived in Missouri and went to a Missouri high school where 27% of the class went to Mizzou and still have plenty of contacts in Missouri. But, whatever. There isn’t a scenario described on CC where you don’t know tons of people who are in it.</p>
<p>I theorize that PG knows lot more people who went to Mizzou than Cobrat. :p</p>
<p>Diverting the topic a little bit, isn’t it possible to have some programs in the State schools which stand on par with anything else we can name at elite schools? It sounds like Mizzou Journalism meets that description. If you considered such programs, most students might have similar level of interests, accomplishments etc.</p>
<p>Maybe it was a cousin who attended mizzou?? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>^ How many regular people do you have to know to equal one cousin?</p>