<p>*While I agree with mom2college about down-playing the “not a fit” aspect of college, I also think that there are some students that truly do not fit certain schools aka state schools. My D is one. I have posted about this before–if she was “forced” to go to a state u/college in our state, she just wouldn’t go! And the cost of mental hardship would probably be close (in time and money) to the loans we will have to take out for her to go to a private. But this is our family’s personal choice and we are willing to do help her fund a private education.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>At some point, it’s hard to tell if the issue is really “fit” or just a child’s putting forth demands. I mean… a child can insist that he/she won’t drive a Chevy and will only drive a (fill in the blank)…but is the issue one of “fit”…or is it something else? </p>
<p>for most kids who “refuse to apply to any state schools,” the issue is really a control issue. “I won’t go no matter what” is the mantra because the child knows/suspects the parents will give in to such demands and cough up the money. If the same child was living in a household where the money just isn’t there, in the end, the child wouldn’t put forth such unreasonable demands and would go where he/she could afford to go…or be ridiculously stubborn and not go at all. If the child pig-headedly chooses the latter, well, that child has issues that are more serious than “fit” and college. </p>
<p>I speak from experience. </p>
<p>My older son first refused to apply or attend any state schools. He felt that “he worked too hard” and deserved to go to an elite school (Val, NMF, high stats). We insisted that he apply to some “parent pick” schools and visit them. He chose his flagship in an elite honors program and loves it. He’ll be graduating in May. </p>
<p>One of my high school friends insisted that she didn’t want to go to any state schools and only applied to Stanford and a few other pricey privates. Her reasoning was that her parents were “just being cheap” to expect her to consider some publics (which she looked down her nose at as being schools where “everyone eles” goes to). In the end, her parents refused to pay for the pricey privates, and she had no schools to go to. She had to go to a CC for 2 years and then transfer to a UC where she graduated from. Stamping her little feet was something that later on she realized was a stupid thing to do.</p>
<p>Your D would skip college entirely rather than lower herself to attend a state school? Seriously? Are your state’s schools really that bad? In Virginia, there is such a variety of outstanding state schools that it would be very difficult not to find a good fit.</p>
<p>Not everyone has this option! Our COA is about 30K. The instate COA of our state school (UVM is our only state university) is $26,274. Slightly less but not much less than our COA. Commuting is not an option since it’s 3 hours from our home. There are 3 private colleges our son could commute to (none of which is really suitable, but just looking at the money) and the COAs for commuter students are 42K, 42K, 23K (getting there, I suppose). I’m not sure whether they all even allow freshmen to commute, however.</p>
<p>Fortunately our son is a NMSF and can get merit money that way (and through good stats in general). But not everyone has <em>that</em> option either!</p>
<p>Yes, there’s always a way, but for our son, if he weren’t able to get substantial merit scholarships to reduce the cost to our family, we’d be down to community college. The problem I see with the “do 2 years of community college then transfer” plan is that it’s nearly impossible to get financial aid as a transfer, so what you save in the first 2 years, you may pay back in the last 2! </p>
<p>There’s a philosophical question about who should be responsible to pay for college. Our country puts it on families, within their generously-defined “means”. Other countries answer this question differently. </p>
<p>When my kids were babies, I could have paid for MIT tuition out of my salary (and indeed was paying that much just for daycare – that is, daycare for 2 kids, which we paid for several years, would have covered tuition for 1, and given that we only have 1 year of college overlap between 3 kids, we figured being able to pay tuition for 1 as a normal household expense was a decent indicator). But even being much more established in my career now, tuition has risen far more sharply than my income. So I don’t think that kelsmom’s question about “could you afford college right now” is the right one, necessarily.</p>
<p>Looks like most of the programs are for children of deceased service members (I am very thankful we don’t qualify for these wonderful programs or benefits).</p>
<p>Post-9/11 G.I. Bill: allows transfer of benefits to spouse and dependent children if serving as of August 1, 2009, with as few as six years of service, but denies transferability to long-serving personnel who served and made sacrifices during the War on Terror, and also fails to acknowledge the sacrifices made by their families.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, dependents of military retirees are ineligible for Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits (even though my spouse served 30 years, including 7 years post 9/11). This program would pay up to $15,440 per semester! >></p>
<p>Next school year that is changing to $17,500 per year for private schools or the in-state rate for public schools.</p>
<p>Far too many people lie. It really sucks. I have posted here before that I know women who are under-employed single parents with hardly any savings who did not get aid because of that tiny bit of savings that they have for their kids. Our family gets WIC and I’m only doing the FAFSA so I can say I can do it. Even as an undergraduate, the child of a single parent paying a mortgage, I only qualified for loans.</p>
<p>It is truly a joke. My cousin (technically single with kids, the under-employed person who qualifies for WIC and welfare, but does not take it because she lives with her partner and feels it would be dishonest) was told to LIE by a financial aid officer. “Nobody gets it with their real income.”</p>
<p>Way to perpetuate it, lady. (For the record, of course my cousin did not lie.) Now the only people getting that money will be people with no sense of morality.</p>
<p>I only knew two people in college who got aid for state schools, and one was a ward of the court, and the other had two disabled parents.</p>
<p>Can you talk to the education people about that? They might be able to help. It never hurts to go in there and speak with someone. What’s your nearest post? I’ve found there’s often an exception to the rule.</p>
<p>I thought the school I chose would be a great fit. Actually, I hated it for the first two years and didn’t even begin to enjoy it until I found my major. That was not the major I intended to choose in the beginning.</p>
<p>I think that in some cases, “fit” has meaning, but a lot of it depends on chance.</p>
<p>*1) Attend a school that costs much less than EFC…such as a state school. </p>
<p>Not everyone has this option! Our COA is about 30K. The instate COA of our state school (UVM is our only state university) is $26,274*</p>
<p>While I agree that some state schools have high COAs, a person doesn’t have to “go away” to school…at least right away… he can commute to a local state school for the cost of tuition and books. ** If there is only one state school**, then start at a local CC and then transfer. At least you’ll save a lot over the first 2 years…probably about $30k+ in savings. :)</p>
<p>And…if a person’s EFC is $30k and the school’s tuition, r&B, and books cost about $25k, then a family can futher bring down its EFC by having the student take out a student loan. In this case, a family with an EFC of $30k can pay about $20k…which means the parents have reduced their contribution by 33%. </p>
<p>Keep in mind, that at most schools, students would have a loan in their FA packages to meet need - and therefore cannot go towards EFC . So, to be able to have a student loan go towards EFC can be a good thing. </p>
<p>In-state tuition and fees: $14,066
Room and board: $9,352
Books and supplies: $1,200</p>
<p>You had to be on active duty as of Aug 1, 2009 and have applied to transfer benefits before retirement. The VA has to certify your eligibility. Congress passed the law and had to draw the lime somewhere. The transfer portion was enacted in 2008 - to take effect in 2009 so we know several people who delayed retirement until Aug 2009. There is talk of changing the cut off, but since they just revamped the program effective this Aug, it would be at least another year after that before any new changes would be made.</p>
<p>* Even as an undergraduate, the child of a single parent paying a mortgage, I only qualified for loans.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>If you only qualified for loans, that suggests that your parent earns too much for you to have an EFC low enough for Pell grants. That seems odd since you qualify for WIC. However, I don’t know what the qualifications are for WIC these days.</p>
<p>Again, I’m not convinced this works unless the family will definitely be absolutely full pay at the school they’d be transferring to, even from freshman year. Basically the only chance to get merit aid and the best chance to get need-based aid is by starting at the school in freshman year. So by not attending the first 2 years, the family may save $30K the first 2 years, but how much extra will they pay the next 2?</p>
<p>I’m also not convinced that this is even workable for students looking toward a degree (such as an engineering or technology degree, among others) where degree requirements start right in freshman year. I think it’s unlikely that enough classes would transfer directly into degree requirements, which may mean a student would have to spend an extra semester or more in college, again increasing costs. When a school offers their own physics for civil engineers course freshman year, for example, they may not allow a student to transfer in “just any” CC physics course in its place, and there may not be a suitable option at the student’s local CC. If a student wants to pursue this option, I believe they would need to consult very closely with the target college starting before they enroll to make sure that enough credits will be transferable to make this a viable option.</p>
<p>Thank you mathmomvt for adding another point to this conversation! “The problem I see with the “do 2 years of community college then transfer” plan is that it’s nearly impossible to get financial aid as a transfer, so what you save in the first 2 years, you may pay back in the last 2!” </p>
<p>Some of us are not so lucky as to be in a state with an excellent university system. (And that assessment is all relative; some believe that our state system is good.) If we did, then I would have insisted on D applying. And yes, worse come to worse, there is our pathetic cc, more like grade 13 or for some kids, grade 12. I have taken courses there, and most of the classes were a joke. I’ve also taken classes at a full college in our system. Again, most classes were a joke, non-rigorous and a waste of time.</p>
<p>So, no mom2college…this is not a case of “a pig-headed” child stamping their feet or any “control” issue. I know that my daughter is looking for an academically challenging college experience and, sad to say, she won’t get it in our system!</p>
<p>Another excellent point Mathmomvt!–Transferring credits. When D was in 11th grade, we considered sending her to the cc for her 12th grade year (our hs and cc have a partnership program for this). At a college information workshop, I asked the reps from the 3 colleges there (state school and 2 privates) about how their colleges viewed this, whether it was better to transfer credits from cc or stay in hs and take AP classes. Without a blink they said, stay in our hs and do the APs. It would be sketchy whether or not the CC credits would transfer. So we decided to not waste the money at the CC and D took APs and college level courses in hs.</p>
<p>What if the school is three hours a way? Is a six hour commute everyday really a realistic alternative to going away? If the choice is living on campus for a certain amount and commuting to a closer private for that amount + $15,000 extra, I don’t understand the point of commuting. From where mathmomvt is coming, it looks like her best option would be to commute to the private for $23k (assuming they let freshmen commute!)</p>
Those other countries also decide who gets to go to college, and usually where, out of a small number of possibilities, they may go–the student’s idea of “fit” certainly isn’t a concern.</p>
<p>I also agree that the “fit” issue is ridiculously overblown. Kids don’t get to determine “fit” when it comes to what family they’re born into, what town/neighborhood they’re raised in, what school district they attend, and they manage to deal with it. Surely someone can adapt to almost any circumstances for four years if the goal is an education–no one is being sent to the Gulag for college.</p>
<p>At the time, my mother was earning under $45k/year as a nurse. Richie Rich, right?</p>
<p>The qualification for WIC–which my cousin and I both meet–is pretty low. Poverty level.</p>
<p>But you don’t get Pell grants at poverty level, because you have an income. Especially not if you have $5k in savings in case of an emergency. You are supposed to spend that on college.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You mean the upper-middle class.</p>
<p>They conveniently decided without consulting the lower-middle and working classes whether they intended to pay for college. Everyone I knew went to college with their parents’ incomes as a burden, not a gift. Gee, thanks. My mom joked that if she’d have known, she wouldn’t have taken that miserable tax deduction for me the last two years, and it would have still been cheaper, even helping me pay for a room to rent somewhere.</p>
<p>1)identify a local community college that is CLEP friendly.
2) let the kid take every CLEP applicable towards an AA/AS degree.
get an AA/AS on the cheap. that is 2 years off the NAME BRAND University.
3)transfer in BRAND NAME. graduate in two years. at half the cost.</p>
<p>i earned 21 CLEP credits in one day! more than a full semester in one day.</p>
<p>note: the fact that a kid transferred in is not mentioned on the kid’s $50,000 diploma.</p>
<p>Of course “fit” is important! Should a kid go to a college that’s in a city if they don’t feel safe or comfortable? Should a city kid go to college in the country if she doesn’t feel safe or comfortable? Should a kid go to a school that’s not academically challenging (if challenge is what they want)? Should a kid go to a school that’s not open to diversity or friendly to that student"s background? NO! I could go on and on…Comparing what family a person is born into to picking a college is ridiculous!</p>
<p>The qualification for WIC–which my cousin and I both meet–is pretty low. Poverty level.>></p>
<p>I’m confused. WIC ends at age 5 so how were you & your cousin on WIC? Or did you have children? In which case, wouldn’t you be an independent student?</p>
<p>Considering that the $23K private does not actually offer ANY degrees in engineering, computer science, natural or physical sciences, it’s not actually a suitable option for my son at all. Fortunately he has already been accepted to two (out of town private) schools that will offer him full tuition if he is named a NMF which we expect to happen this week. That will leave us to pay room & board and misc. expenses which will come to about half of our EFC and will be affordable for us. (Both are also incidentally co-op schools, so DS will have the ability to earn some decent money toward his expenses while still in school as well.) So those are his financial “safeties” (which I put in quotes because we have to assume he makes NMF for it to work – they have both offered him generous merit scholarships already, but those just bring the COA down to about our EFC which would be a real stretch for us, tho his co-op income would make them doable.) Now we’re waiting to see what else falls out as his other admissions and financial aid decisions roll in this spring.</p>
<p>So my point isn’t that my son doesn’t have any viable options, but that it would be easy for someone in my state (and presumably other states with similar constraints) not to have any viable options, and the oft-offered advice to just commute to a state school or transfer after 2 years of CC don’t seem to be as universally viable solutions as some would like us to think.</p>