The FAFSA is a joke

Paying for College
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<p>You’re absolutely right. In retrospect, I should have said “best option, if the ONLY concern was the cheapest out-of-pocket cost”. I was just questioning the person who quoted part of your post and suggested that commuting would have been a good idea in your case, since in the very next sentence you point out that the nearest public would be three hours a way. A six-hour commute everyday would almost certainly restrict the kinds of courses that the student would be able to take. It would also rule out healthy amount of sleep. a job during the school year or much time spent studying outside of class. I don’t see how that could be possibly worth it, to be honest, unless. </p>

<p>And attending a school that doesn’t have any of the majors the student is interested in seems like a waste of money too, even if it’s less than it would cost to attend an appropriate school.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t even <em>consider</em> letting my kid commute to a school 3 hours away! That’s not even remotely an option, and I doubt the school would allow it either!</p>

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<p>UVM doesn’t even allow students to commute for the first <em>two</em> years so that wouldn’t even be an option if we lived close:</p>

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<p>I did not have children when I got my bachelors (traditional student, right out of high-school). My mother was not on WIC at that time, but we were more in the OP’s situation: little spare income, zero aid.</p>

<p>Now, both my cousin and I are looking for aid, and yes both of us have children under five, and are eligible for WIC, but not financial aid. Yep. Below the poverty line is not enough to get a grant these days.</p>

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<p>A three-hour commute is not an option. That’s ridiculous. Six hours per day in transit? Maybe if your family is going hungry and that’s the only job available. Otherwise, no way.</p>

<p>What about cheaper out-of-state colleges like the University of Washington ($25k) or Oregon ($8.6k for out of state, $6.8k for OSU)?</p>

<p>Mathmom, what does your son want to go into? Arizona State has a good engineering program ([Electrical</a> Engineering Rankings](<a href=“http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/electrical-engineering-rankings/]Electrical”>http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/electrical-engineering-rankings/)) and it’s $20k for out-of-state.</p>

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I don’t live in such a state. Our state university system is one of the smallest and lowest-ranked in the country. Yet, there are still options!</p>

<p>If the student has sufficient stats, they can very likely get merit $$$ at OOS schools - both public and private. If not… even the worst state flagships often have some strengths. UAF isn’t my ideal college, but if that were the only affordable option I could deal with it.

There are an awful lot of colleges in this country. I think there is something for everyone.</p>

<p>Also, does the same logic apply after graduation? Like, if the only in-field job offers are in cities should the country kid choose unemployment or McDonalds?

Both of these cost figures are completely and totally inaccurate. UDub and UOregon have total OOS COAs of over $38k, and the former is particularly well-known for nonexistant merit aid. OSU is about $5k less.</p>

<p>UO does offer WUE tuition to students in some majors. Check with them for details. EDIT: This obviously only applies to students from WUE states.</p>

<p>If mathmom’s son ends up making NMF, there are plenty of schools that offer very generous packages.</p>

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<p>Timing is a problem now. Many schools have early admission deadlines for merit aid. Michigan’s publics are Nov 1. Most deadlines for privates in the state have now passed.</p>

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<p>Thanks for posting those tuition corrections noimagination, I was just about to do so myself!</p>

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<p>I would add to this that UO does not accept CA residents under WUE, and that at UO WUE acts like a scholarship program and is competitive, rather than being open to all as long as your state and major qualify.</p>

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<p>My son has options where he has been admitted with merit aid that will allow him to attend (at a stretch right now but at a comfortable level assuming he advances to NMF). This isn’t about him in particular, it’s just about people living in states where commuting to the state school isn’t “the” solution to an unaffordable EFC.</p>

<p>Kelsmom said she thinks everyone thinks they should get financial aid. I think she’s right. There is a fairy tale that suggests that lots of “top” schools offer need-blind admissions and it makes it seem like there is a meritocracy in place, where the “best” students will be admitted to and be able to attend the “best” colleges. And it’s a shock to families when it turns out that even need-blind meets-full-need colleges are unaffordable due to the fact that schools compute what families can afford in ways that leave many families in shock and unable to reasonably “afford” their contribution.</p>

<p>The schools perpetuate this fairly tale with websites proclaiming things like “If you are admitted to our college, we’ll make sure you can afford it” while glossing over what “afford” means and in many cases not making their needs determination formula transparent, so families won’t know what the school thinks “afford” means until very late in the game.</p>

<p>Many of us paid our own way through college, and imagined that our own children would be able to do the same. That just isn’t practical anymore for a huge number of students of similar means (to those who a generation ago paid their own way) who don’t happen to live in places where a quality school is available around the corner with nice low in-state tuition. Tuition to both public and private universities has skyrocketed. </p>

<p>So it turns out to be a shock when our kids get to Junior or Senior year and it becomes clear that colleges expect the families to pay huge amounts of money toward our kids’ college educations, because the fairy tales we’ve been fed don’t line up to reality.</p>

<p>And the top-secret financial aid formulas most private colleges use pretty much force families to bury our heads in the sand and just apply hoping that somehow something will work out.</p>

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<p>*If there is only one state school, then start at a local CC and then transfer. At least you’ll save a lot over the first 2 years…probably about $30k+ in savings. </p>

<p>Again, I’m not convinced this works unless the family will definitely be absolutely full pay at the school they’d be transferring to, even from freshman year. Basically the only chance to get merit aid and the best chance to get need-based aid is by starting at the school in freshman year. So by not attending the first 2 years, the family may save $30K the first 2 years, but how much extra will they pay the next 2?</p>

<p>I’m also not convinced that this is even workable for students looking toward a degree (such as an engineering or technology degree, among others) where degree requirements start right in freshman year. I think it’s unlikely that enough classes would transfer directly into degree requirements, which may mean a student would have to spend an extra semester or more in college, again increasing costs. When a school offers their own physics for civil engineers course freshman year, for example, they may not allow a student to transfer in “just any” CC physics course in its place,*</p>

<p>MathMomVT…</p>

<p>I hear you.</p>

<p>I agree that if there is big merit to be had elsewhere, that totally changes the picture. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>My point all along has been for students who don’t qualify for merit or need-based free aid and what their cheapest options are. </p>

<p>When money is a concern in ANY area of life, people have to be open to options and “work arounds”. </p>

<p>Many states have agreements between their CCs and state schools to accept courses. Also, with some foresight, a student can carefully pick and choose the courses that will transfer. I’m not saying that it will be easy, nor can it be done “willy nilly”…foresight and careful planning must be done.</p>

<p>And…a student may decide not do 4 semesters at a CC…he may only do 2 or 3. But, whatever he does, it will be a cost savings overall (if he has no better merit opportunities elsewhere). </p>

<p>Even if a student who goes to a CC for 2 years ends up taking one extra semester at a 4 year college, that is STILL a big savings overall.</p>

<p>2 years commuting to a CC…about $10k… (many states would be lower)
2 1/2 years at state school…about $62k (at $25k per year)
about $72k and…if the student borrows $27k, then that’s only $45k total for parents.</p>

<p>vs</p>

<p>4 years at a state school…about $100k.</p>

<p>Again, I agree that if there are merit opportunities elsewhere, that can be a big savings. And, yes, those offers aren’t available to transfer students.</p>

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<p>MmeZeeZee…I’m confused by your posts. You already have your bachelor’s, but you are looking for FinAid still?</p>

<p>Also…I’m pretty sure my family is not at the poverty line by any means, but we are probably considered lower middle class. BUT I have qualified for a Pell and other grants for the past two years of college, in addition to student loans. How would come you and your cousin only qualify for student loans? My family doesn’t lie on the FAFSA either (like you’ve said before) because we were verified the year I started school. So it’s making me wonder why there seems to be an inconsistency with income level and what FA people get…unless I’m understanding your posts completely wrong.</p>

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<p>MmeZeeZee…</p>

<p>Do you have independent status with a child?</p>

<p>What is your FAFSA EFC?</p>

<p>Do you ALREADY have a Bachelors degree?</p>

<p>If you don’t already have a BS or BA and you do have a child, and you do have a low income, then you should have an EFC low enough for Pell grants.</p>

<p>Something doesn’t seem right.</p>

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<p>The other big shock for most families of kids with great stats is that merit aid doesn’t reduce the amount a family pays, in most cases, it just reduces the need-based aid that they would otherwise qualify for. While I understand <em>why</em> this is the case, it feels like (<em>especially</em> with <em>outside</em> scholarships) that this is something the <em>student</em> (a member of the family) earned, and thus should be counted toward what the family is contributing. Now most schools do allow the student to replace loans from their finaid package first when they have outside scholarships, which genuinely does decrease what the family pays in the long run. But I have to say that that is another thing that families do not understand early enough in the process…</p>

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Just as an aside, many students through history have gone to schools which were not particularly “friendly” to their diverse status, including many of our female forebears, who braved male mockery to get their educations and paved the way for us and our D’s. And one doesn’t even need to get into the indignities suffered by African American and other minorities who faced down institutional discrimination and forced open the doors to integrated education in this country. </p>

<p>The mother of Michelle Obama’s Princeton roommate has admitted to calling the school to DEMAND that her precious D be placed with someone else.</p>

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<p>I’m going for a master’s.</p>

<p>Got my bachelor’s when single. Had career. Had kids. Economy tanked during the last part, now “under-employed”, husband in military earning jack-all. Want to go get a master’s to increase marketability for jobs that I can have with kids (I can get work with a bachelor’s but it requires much more travel).</p>

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<p>You’d think that, right?</p>

<p>But let’s take my cousin. On taxes, which are filed separately from her partner, she is a single mother with three kids, seriously under-employed, far below the poverty level. But her meager 5k/year income plus 5k in savings eliminates her. Apparently, she’s supposed to not go to school, or what? Give her kids up for foster care? She couldn’t get her head around it. But again, I repeat, the counselor told her to just LIE about savings and that tiny bit of income. She said everyone does, and the people who put zeros all the way down are the ones that get aid.</p>

<p>It is INSANE, I tell you. Even people who you would think really, really need it, do not get it. It’s not just, “Oh, we’d have to mortgage our house.” It is, “Oh, I’d have to sell one of my children.”</p>

<p>Pell grants. Pffft. I don’t believe they exist. ;)</p>

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For students and parents of students, living in a state like Vermont that doesn’t support higher ed simply sucks. The only good solution is to work really hard in high school and earn merit aid out of state.</p>

<p>At the same time, I think there is more room for “low-cost” colleges to shake up the industry - just like happened with the airlines. I want to crunch some data and will post more in a few minutes…

Ford doesn’t advertise the fact that not everyone can afford to buy a new Fusion. They do everything possible to make a new car purchase appear affordable. It’s up to the consumer to determine the price and decide if a purchase is worthwhile.</p>

<p>The same logic applies to college. Students and parents need to be responsible consumers.</p>

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<p>Oh, and I’m still filing the FAFSA but based on my predictions (and my cousin’s depressing experience getting her BA), I think I will only qualify for loans, no grants, maybe not even loans.</p>

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<p>MmeZeeZee…I still can’t figure out why your cousin’s situation was the way it was…maybe one of the seasoned CC posters on here can. Like I said before…my family’s income is over the poverty limit, I had savings my first year, and I had a significant amount of Financial Aid that came only from grants. (I did have the full amount in student loans too, though.)</p>

<p>And if I’m not mistaken, grad programs only offer loans as financial aid anyway. There is no federal funding that I know of. Maybe the school you’ve applied to offers its own funding…but from my research, grad school gets funded through assistantships/fellowships. Two of the programs I’ve looked at offer a tuition waiver + living stipend for doing an assistantship of some sort. (Hopefully that’s still around when I apply.) Perhaps the grad programs/schools you are looking into offer something like that?</p>

<p>If grad school is like undergrad, when you file the FAFSA, you become eligible for a certain amount of federal loans.</p>

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<p>@mathmomvt: Okay, my conclusion is that Vermont’s public higher education system isn’t just underfunded by the state. It’s a bad value overall. The VT public system had the 6th highest total educational revenue per FTE in the nation in 2009. Vermont students don’t just pay more because the state doesn’t fund the universities - they pay more because the universities burn more cash.</p>

<p>South Dakota is another state with low state support for higher ed, but costs are much more reasonable there.</p>

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<p>Mmzeezee</p>

<p>Oh, you already have a bachelors…that’s a horse of a different color. No Pell for those who already have bachelors.</p>

<p>There’s not enough tax dollars for undergrad, so that’s why no money for masters.</p>

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<p>*The other big shock for most families of kids with great stats is that merit aid doesn’t reduce the amount a family pays, in most cases, it just reduces the need-based aid that they would otherwise qualify for. While I understand <em>why</em> this is the case, it feels like (<em>especially</em> with <em>outside</em> scholarships) that this is something the <em>student</em> (a member of the family) earned, and thus should be counted toward what the family is contributing. Now most schools do allow the student to replace loans from their finaid package first when they have outside scholarships, which genuinely does decrease what the family pays in the long run. But I have to say that that is another thing that families do not understand early enough in the process… *</p>

<p>I agree that many families do not understand that a merit award that is smaller than need is not going to reduce EFC. For many people, a $15k per year merit scholarship at a school that costs $55k is not going to mean much, if anything.</p>

<p>That’s why those who have unaffordably high EFCs need to look for HUGE merit. Huge merit will cover any need and THEN cut into EFC.</p>