The First Post-College Job: How Picky Should Your Kid Be?

fireandrain · June 7, 2014, 2:20pm

I will add that many people in Grace’s situation make a decision in the way that she is. Many people have family situations where they don’t have the flexibility to live/work anywhere.

I’ve known beginning journalists who refused to take the job at the small newspaper/TV station in the middle of nowhere and instead took secretarial jobs because they just had to be in NYC or some other large city. Some of them managed to be very successful in journalism, and some of them never got the experience they needed to move into the types of jobs they initially thought they were headed toward. So I don’t think Grace is totally shooting herself in her foot by refusing to look at all positions. But she could be. Especially in this economy.

romanigypsyeyes · June 7, 2014, 4:46pm

Honestly, not every young person on here is me! Lol. I’ve been confused with both HGFM and Ema in the past 24 hours.

I am still in my master’s program and have no intention of being picky. I do want to get out of the state and there are several states that I refuse to work in (and that’s OK because they likely have no jobs in my field). Commute doesn’t bother me. I’m flexible to move.

emeraldkity4 · June 7, 2014, 5:06pm

It really depends on the individual, the major, the situation.
Helpful eh?
One young woman I know really was invested in attending graduate school, granted her major, which had been classics, wasn’t obviously job friendly. ( her college was rural on east coast, her family is west coast)
However grad school ( I expect she had a high bar) didn’t work out, she didn’t want to relocate, and she ended up doing work for a local largish tech company as a subcontractor and last year was hired permanently with lots of perks and salary. Which took about five years.

My daughter didn’t want to attend grad school right away, but she really liked her college city and cobbled together work, as subcontractor and independent as well as part time employment until she decided to attend grad school in the same state. From college graduation to finishing grad school was six years.
She also wanted to stay in her city and worked for a company she liked as a temporary worker until she also was hired about six months ago as permanent, with lots of perks and salary.
Her grad degree was only tangentially connected to her undergrad degree, and although her specific degrees didn’t have anything to do with her career path, her jobs including work study, very much so did.

Most undergrad, or at least many undergrad degrees are fairly flexible. They aren’t going to lead directly to work, ( and for many jobs, a degree is required, but doesn’t matter what field). However, they indicate to the employer a certain level of competence and perseverance, and are used as a screening tool.

People and place are very important to some people.
H for instance has worked for the same company for about 27 years. He has been offered promotions which required relocating which he has turned down. Partially I suspect because he didn’t want to leave the area, but also because a promotion would require more people managing which he dislikes and less hands on.
( although, I would have relocated to Italy for a year or two)

For most kids, unless they really want to get out of Dodge and they live in a rural area with zero jobs, I would say its ok to decide where you want to live and then find a job.
Or not, you should love what you do, but that is more a matter of attitude than details of the workplace unless it is really gawdawful.
I think its more than fine to initially take work that you dont expect to be doing for more than a couple years, just to " get in the game".
Id also recommend that students work for at least a few years between grad school and undergrad as that seems to make them significantly more employable after grad school, even if their previous work experience wasnt in the same field.

( gives you a chance to manage your loans a bit too)

emeraldkity4 · June 7, 2014, 5:08pm

It really depends on the individual, the major, the situation.
Helpful eh?
One young woman I know really was invested in attending graduate school, granted her major, which had been classics, wasn’t obviously job friendly. ( her college was rural on east coast, her family is west coast)
However grad school ( I expect she had a high bar) didn’t work out, she didn’t want to relocate, and she ended up doing work for a local largish tech company as a subcontractor and last year was hired permanently with lots of perks and salary. Which took about five years.

My daughter didn’t want to attend grad school right away, but she really liked her college city and cobbled together work, as subcontractor and independent as well as part time employment until she decided to attend grad school in the same state. From college graduation to finishing grad school was six years.
She also wanted to stay in her city and worked for a company she liked as a temporary worker until she also was hired about six months ago as permanent, with lots of perks and salary.
Her grad degree was only tangentially connected to her undergrad degree, and although her specific degrees werent directly relatable to her career path, the diversity of her experience made her a strong hire.
Most undergrad, or at least many undergrad degrees are fairly flexible. They aren’t going to lead directly to work, ( and for many jobs, a degree is required, but doesn’t matter what field). However, they indicate to the employer a certain level of competence and perseverance, and are used as a screening tool.

People and place are very important to some people.
H for instance has worked for the same company for about 27 years. He has been offered promotions which required relocating which he has turned down. Partially I suspect because he didn’t want to leave the area, but also because a promotion would require more people managing which he dislikes and less hands on.
( although, I would have relocated to Italy for a year or two)

For most kids, unless they really want to get out of Dodge and they live in a rural area with zero jobs, I would say its ok to decide where you want to live and then find a job.
Or not, you should love what you do, but that is more a matter of attitude than details of the workplace unless it is really gawdawful.
I think its more than fine to initially take work that you dont expect to be doing for more than a couple years, just to " get in the game".
Id also recommend that students work for at least a few years between grad school and undergrad as that seems to make them significantly more employable after grad school, even if their previous work experience wasnt in the same field.

( gives you a chance to manage your loans a bit too)

HisGraceFillsMe · June 7, 2014, 5:28pm

I’m not refusing to apply to large schools or rural schools. I interviewed with (The) Ohio State University at a conference I went to in March, as well as Boise State and several other schools which were much larger and in other areas than I originally wanted. I went to an on-campus interview in Kentucky, which also was not originally on the short-list.

I spent the last two years in rural Indiana as a grad student. I’ve dealt with those issues and understand those experiences. I don’t understand what else I’m going to learn by doing that again. ISU is unique in that we have 25-ish grads and only 5 or 6 professionals in our Housing/ResLife department, so much of the work that would notmally be done by the full-time professionals is done by the grads. I’ve had people look at my resume during interviews and say that there was no way I’ve done everything on my resume because it’s so out of the ordinary for grads to do that type of work.

My point is that I have looked at all my options and applied at different types of schools, but during my interviews I have not connected with the larger schools. If I see a good job in an area other than what I want, I will apply.

boysx3 · June 7, 2014, 8:08pm

I have two sons who live and work in DC, and H and I recently relocated to DC, where we both now live and work.

I’m not sure why the graduate being discussed in this thread is so concerned with the commute…if the commute is too long the obvious alternative is to do the adult thing and move to a more convenient location. He can’t really expect adult life to be as convenient as living on a college campus, where you roll out of bed and in to class. I’m sure he has noticed that’s not how his parents live their lives.

Lots of kids make this transition every year. Of course, where they can afford to live isn’t quite mommy and daddy’s luxurious home, but there are a lot of ways to have a safe, affordable alternative…he can’t really expect adult life to be as convenient as living on a college campus, where you roll out of bed and into class.

One of my sons has chosen to live by himself (an item on his bucket list). He has a nice studio in an older building in a wonderful neighborhood, right across from the metro station. He makes a decent salary and can afford all of what he needs and a good amount of what he wants, all while stashing money into savings every month.

My other DC based son has chosen to live in more stylish digs, but with room mates. The boys are shoe-horned in, but each has a private sleeping space, and they are only two blocks from the metro. He could afford to pay a bit more than he does, but he likes where he lives and who he is living with, and living below his means is letting him have some fun while also saving some money.

Each likes most aspects of their respective jobs, and is learning a lot–including what they would like/ not like for their next job. Which is as it should be.

calmom · June 7, 2014, 8:55pm

Actually, the OP clarified in a later post that the grad had not been offered the job in question – it looks like he didn’t even apply. It looks like friend-mom found a job listing and told friend-son, but friend-son said he wasn’t interested and cited the commute as a reason. I’m skeptical-- I think its more that the particular job didn’t appeal to friend-son, and friend-son simply gave his mom a reason that seemed rational to him. The same kid might very well happily embrace an hour-long commute if dream job comes along.

That’s why it is always so hard to second guess when a poster starts writing about the job or college hunts of some friend’s kids. We aren’t getting the whole story.

So the “commute” thing might be the functional equivalent of the kid who refuses to apply to a college after a visit because the students seemed too “preppy”. What he kid is really saying is that he’s got a gut level sense that the place would not be a good fit.

I’d note that when my kids are looking for work I routinely “help” by regularly checking listings at places like Indeed and forwarding stuff that looks like a good fit. I am very much aware that my kids already have access to the same listings-- but i figure there is a chance that I might see something that they miss, especially when they are still very busy with other stuff (finishing school, still at job #1 while looking for job #2, etc.).

But I have always let my kids guide me as to criteria, and I don’t push if they say they aren’t interested in particular listing. If a kid doesn’t particularly want a job, he won’t get it --his lack of enthusiasm will be apparent in an interview. If by some fluke the kid does land a job he never really wanted… he won’t last.

I’m not saying that the kid should be home lying on the couch until the dream job drops from heaven. My son had interviews lined up in our area even before he packed up his stuff to move home from college-- and he was hired almost immediately but did have to relocate. But he’s now in the market again, as he finishes grad school --without the same flexibility to move. Daughter has had a series of two absolutely amazing jobs. None of the post-college jobs they have had were the result of listings that I brought to their attention, but some were very close-- and my d. did get a part-time job during college because of a listing I sent her. (Great job – fun work, could be done online from her dorm room, and looked terrific on a resume – something she never would have found on her own because it was something I had sent to refute her claim that it was impossible to find anything good to apply for on Craigslist – turns out that a handful of legit employers did advertise there)

momreads · June 8, 2014, 12:54pm

When my son looked for jobs in the DC area right after graduation, one of the places that he considered offered a decent salary, and a package that included an allowance for commuting to/from work. He thought that was very generous, as it would save him $200 or so dollars a month, depending where he lived. He did not receive an offer from the company. Still, it was nice that the company built commuting in its package. Instead, my son went to work for another firm. He hated it! He quit about three months into the job, went out and found something different that he does enjoy. He will leave the work force, however, in August to head to law school.

Mom22039 · June 8, 2014, 3:17pm

I’m really glad this has generated such a good discussion. It has been an important part of conversations with friends in the DC suburbs…just how picky should the kids be? In my group, it seems we all fear that if the kids don’t take the good-enough job, they will be long term unemployed or long term under employed. Do they appreciate the sacrifices we made for their education, travel abroad, etc., to take a reasonable job and get on with their lives?

SlackerMomMD · June 8, 2014, 3:46pm

I live just outside DC metro area, and I’ve lived in Northern Va. I would do ANYTHING to have a mere 35 minute commute. Anything under 45 minutes, an hour is great. Anything under 30 minutes is a dream.

If a short commute is important, why can’t the son live closer? Tons of new college grads/young adults live in group situations, be it a group house or sharing a two bed room apartment, in DC, Northern Va. and Maryland.

intparent · June 8, 2014, 3:50pm

If the commute is on the metro, at least you can read or use your phone or whatever. There are worse commutes (sitting in traffic in a car…). My D lives not too far out the red line, and pays about $1,000 monthly for a room in an apartment with 2 other girls (each with their own room). She could live farther out the line and pay less, too.

poetgrl · June 8, 2014, 3:50pm

It’s better to be working than not working. If he wants to take an offer and continue to interview? He can. In the meantime, if he’s that picky already, it could take a year to get an offer he likes, and he will already have a year under his belt. Even a job at an sbux is better than no job, in my opinion. As an employer, I worry about the work ethic of anyone unemployed at some sort of work even just a month after graduation. YMMV

juillet · June 8, 2014, 4:13pm

I find that many new graduates have unrealistic expectations, often inflated by their university’s career services office or by looking at friends they know who are more years out of college. I find that a few months of struggling usually changes their mindset. My sister is a perfect example - she got a BS in exercise science from a small regional college near our hometown, and wanted to work as an exercise physiologist right out of college. Small field. At first she only applied for jobs that perfectly fit what she wanted. I remember highlighting an entry-level job in her field that was like a 40-minute drive from where she lives now (in a metro area in which it is average) and she scoffed and said that was too far.

She graduated 6 months ago, still hasn’t found a job. Now she’s applying for everything, and is at least getting some interviews now.

My SIL (who is the same age as my sister) has done the same. She graduated 2 years ago with a BA in criminal justice, and has earned a master’s in CJ in the meantime; at first, she was concentrated only on things that perfectly fit what she wanted to do. Then she started applying for everything…and started getting interviews.

I think both of them eventually realized that you have to work your way into the job you want, especially in small/competitive fields.

calmom · June 8, 2014, 9:12pm

That’s a normal parental fear, but it is not always the best option for a person to take the first offer that comes along. You wouldn’t have insisted that your kid attend the first rolling- admission safety college that he could get into in order to avoid the months of stress and uncertainty of applying to more selective colleges. If it didn’t make sense to opt for the first “good-enough” school that came along… why should it be applied to the job hunt?

I personally didn’t make those sacrificed to pay for my daughter’s elite education in order to see her working at the same retail job she had the summer after high school. She actually did meet a co-worker that summer who was a graduate of her now alma-mater! – but that seemed like a worst-case nightmare to me.

My d. actually was offered a job immediately after graduation - but that is because she started early. She opted to attend school half-time her final semester, in part to give herself more time to focus on the job search. So there were a lot of resumes sent out and job interviews over a period of months when many of her classmates had not really begun to search in earnest. And I think that she did target those job applications to positions that fit her goals.

Both of my kids had a lot of work experience – and “looking for work” experience – before graduating from college. I think that helped them to have a better sense of what was realistic to expect, and to balance that with their goals - and it allowed me to relax more as a parent and let my kids manage their own job hunts.

Remember the marshmallow test? That’s the one where the researchers left little kids alone in a room with a marshmallow, and told them they could eat it if they wanted, but if they didn’t eat it, they would get two marshmallow’s when the experimenter returned to the room. The kids were followed through adulthood, and the ones who had managed to sit on their hands and wait for the adult to return with a 2nd marshmallow also ended up doing the best in school (including higher SAT scores).

So basically: we have spent the past two decades raising and investing in kids who can pass the marshmallow test… and now we are going to push them to accept the first job offer they get?

Again: I’m not advocating that the parents support their kids financially while the kid dallies. It’s just that a resourceful young adult should be able to find a way to manage along the way to finding a job. The search for the full time position doesn’t preclude working part-time along the way, at whatever low-skill job the student can get.

But I do think a very important – and difficult - element of long term success is recognizing when to say “no” to a job offer.

HisGraceFillsMe · June 8, 2014, 9:31pm

^calmom is putting everything I’ve been thinking and trying to say recently into words much better than I could.

I have also seen a lot of alums of my grad program taking the first offer they get, only to be miserable there and be job searching again less than a year later. And job-searching is a full-time job in and of itself. I would rather hold out, and find somewhere to settle for a few years at least.

MaineLonghorn · June 9, 2014, 12:15am

My husband and I got our master’s degrees in structural engineering when the economy in Texas plummeted in 1986. In order to get jobs, we sent out almost 300 resumes, We had to move 2,100 miles away. DH had to agree to work in the civil engineering department (he had had more civil classes than I had, and they didn’t want the two of us in the same department!). He REALLY disliked civil, but it was a job! We also accepted lower salaries than we thought we were worth. You do what you have to do!

emeraldkity4 · June 9, 2014, 12:49am

My daughter and her boyfriend took an internship/ job that isnt quite a. year.
It also doesnt pay. much, but they are looking at it as an amazing opportunity, and I think it will be.

stradmom · June 9, 2014, 1:17am

You really do have to trust your gut instincts. D2 (out of college for two years now and supporting herself) has been kicking herself for turning down a job that on the surface looked great (terrific pay and benefits, good resume title) even though the hours were bad (night shift)…but she just realized that she would have been responsible for doing some really sleazy work under the name of journalism (think stalking facebook photos of victims of a killing rampage). I think she saw something “off” and made the right call in the long run…even though she’s scrambling in the short term.

treemaven · June 9, 2014, 3:25am

A bit harsh, don’t you think? As an employer, how quick are you in getting back to the applicants? the interviewees? the ones who’ve traveled 5 hours having to leave at 5 am ( on their own scarce dime) to meet with you for 15 minutes and told to expect to hear about the next round of interviews in ‘a couple weeks or a month’.

Kiddo graduated a few weeks ago. She has been sending applications, most of which result in phone interviews, many travel interviews, several 'you’re on the short list responses, contacting alumnae, working all networks she can tap into, cold-calling professors and consulting firms, haunting and using her school’s career center, job boards, friends, friends of friends, associates, etc since way last Fall. She is still waiting to receive an offer for employment. And continues to send resumes, applications, make contacts, interview, follow up, and call professors with research labs.

Today she filled out an application with a temp agency and Monday will start work unpaid in a professor’s lab on his research projects she is really interested in. She will continue to follow up on the various interviews that are still ‘in the works’—those telling her 'you have the skills we are looking for, great lab experience, just what we need, but we’ll get back to you (at some indefinite time) in the next few weeks or months.

So, the professor whose lab she’s volunteering does know that she may have to bail when she (finally) gets a paying job, so is it more flaky for her to do that or to not start with him at all? Should she look for some hostessing/barrista/waitress job while she waits for these potential employers to get back to her and bail in a few weeks after they spend the time training her, if she’s lucky enough to finally get her real starting job? How long does she let all this play out before it’s time to take whatever retail clerk job she can find ----just so some employer doesn’t think she’s lazy and has no hustle???

Kiddo graduated with BS Cognitive Neuroscience with 3.7 from top tier school, worked in research labs three of four years, worked in as many as 3 labs at a time, in addition to part-time work on campus, carrying more credits than most each semester, varsity athlete, and interned her last year of school in a non-profit consulting group along with working in a lab. She’s no slacker.

But jobs are hard to come by, employers are not particularly time-sensitive, and it’s an employer’s market.

So really? A new graduate still unemployed ‘at some job’ after a month post graduation is in danger of being seen as having a suspect work ethic??? Harsh.

poetgrl · June 9, 2014, 4:05am

Since both of my kids worked the entire time they were in college( youngest going into second year has had same job since second week of first semester), yes, I will find anyone not working in some capacity at the end of college to be questionable. But I would interview an interesting candidate anyway. It’s just that I’ve never even read a resume all the way thru unless the graduate has earned a regular paycheck, or had a continuous internship. And yes, I would preference a candidate working at sbux right out of school over one not working at all. I’m
Sure other employers might see it differently.

The First Post-College Job: How Picky Should Your Kid Be?

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