the HOOK (aka finding an advocate on campus)

wyogal · May 15, 2005, 7:14pm

I’m starting this thread because I wonder if we are all doing what we can to make the most of our kids’ strengths (curmudgeon’s thread prompted this). Somewhere about 18 months ago (I’m sorry I don’t know where) I read an interview with an admissions officer, who claimed that of utmost importance is to have an “advocate” on campus.

Of course we know that the athletes have their advocates (my sons’ school is a feeder school to the lacrosse giants), but we should not overlook the fact that ANY faculty member or leader on campus could be an advocate.

Here’s an example. Last fall we took S2 and Best Friend (then juniors) to visit schools in upper New England, highlight was Bowdoin. Both have been taking Japanese since 2nd grade. BF has not only excelled, skipping several class levels, but is also fascinated w/Japanese culture & has done an exchange. He is otherwise a BWRK, no superstar. Before we went, we made an appointment with the chair of the Asian Studies dept, and when we arrived and were greeted, made certain the 2 boys greeted the chair IN JAPANESE. They proceeded to have a long interview both with the chair and the J. language instructor. The end result was establishing a relationship between Bowdoin and our school. In fact, Bowdoin J. language instructor just finished a week-long visit to our school to observe the J. program!

Best Friend, although being an “average” student for Bowdoin in terms of stats, has been keeping up an email correspondence with chair of Asian Studies, and will have an advocate who will make a lot of noise in the Admissions Office. This is so important, and can easily make the difference for an admit. Even my S2, who is frankly a “superstar” in stats, will be using his Japanese as a hook even though this is not his strongest feature (we & BF family also are not J. or descendants, this is completely from scratch).

I think most of our children have one “hook” or maybe two that will be of interest to a faculty member or similar person. The trick is to find this person, and make serious, substantive contact.

The alternative is to send in the applications etc. and hope you stand out–it seems to me that’s much more a roll of the dice.

Would love to have people post their child’s strength and wishes for schools, and have the rest of us brainstorm the possibilities.

Laurel
(please don’t flame me–I’ve had enough of this here–just ignore me if you don’t want to participate)

lderochi · May 15, 2005, 7:40pm

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No flames here, I usually don’t play that way. But you’ll probably get some. To start with, I don’t like the word “hook” - actually, I think a lot of people dislike it, but there doesn’t seem to be another buzzword that fits.

Son is a S. Strengths are a very strong moral compass, though we’re not a very religious family. He just has a strong sense of right and wrong, and a strong desire to help people. This carries over into his primary EC – volunteer firefighting. This also is driving his college search. Basically, he gets infuriated by the “unfairness” of HS life – preferential treatment for people and groups that have nothing to do with school achievement, helping others, etc.

So to make a long story short, schools with very strong sense of egalitarianism and non-cliques would definitely interest him. Hard to find, actually, since he’s also looking for a small to mid-size school in the south. And he’s finding that most of those schools – as good as they may be (and I’m also not trying to start a flame war) – tend to have stong Greek life and athletic cultures. But he has a few in mind, and would welcome any suggestions.

Donemom · May 15, 2005, 8:00pm

For both my children, we made an effort to establish a connection to their first choice schools. In the case of my D. and Brown, she did research there the summer before her senior year in her area of interest (psychology). The person she worked under took a personal interest in her and wrote a recommendation for her. While my D. had very strong stats, I think this “advocacy” may have sealed the deal.

In the case of my son and Harvard, he was doing medical research locally during the summer before senior year, so what he did is search for a Harvard researcher who was working in a very closely related area. He contacted several, stating he was interested in continuing this work as an undergrad. Most people responded by saying “let me know if you get in”, but finally, one reacted more positively. He and my son corresponded a bit about their respective projects, and then my son visited his lab. It was a very favorable experience, and he basically told my son he could work there if he was accepted at Harvard. Since this researcher was part of Harvard Medical School, we didn’t think it would be useful to ask him to write a recommendation. Neverthleless, my son did mention this experience in his application, which I think demonstrated a commitment both to his research and to Harvard. Happily, he was accepted EA.

curmudgeon · May 15, 2005, 8:27pm

iderochi, I know I have said it before but Hendrix in Arkansas sounds like a winner. We have visited . No greeks. Quirky. Great school. Great campus. Really fine regional reputation. Residential college. It would be very high on D’s list except she feels it is too close to home, with too many from Texas, her homestate (25%) and she didn’t really get a feel as it was a visit on the shoulders of SB week. Hendrix gets lots of kids to med/law/grad school for a modest price and has some great merit opps.

lderochi · May 15, 2005, 10:13pm

Curmudgeon – It’s on the list. Sort of. Turns out his cousin from Oklahoma, who is one year ahead of him, is strongly considering Hendrix. And if she goes, well, for a variety of reasons too lengthy to go into (ain’t families fun?) Hendrix will probably join the “when Hell freezes over” list. It does sound very, very promising otherwise. Just have to wait and see.

curmudgeon · May 15, 2005, 10:29pm

Iderochi, LOL. Are y’all the Hatfield’s or the McCoys? That’s a new one for me, but …when I think of it from a friendship level I know that D has close friends that if they chose to attend her chosen school she’d pick a new chosen school. So, maybe I can see that after all. But it’s still funny.

somemom · May 15, 2005, 10:30pm

A possible hook is club sports- it depends on the quality fo your athlete and the policy of the school, but some coaches are allowed to submit extra info on potential club athletes.

MY D is a national team player in her sport- UCs can submit extras (letters of rec & more detailed info than the online app allows) and though there is no tip from the coach submitting a list, there is at least a little bitty second look at your kid, UVA cannot do anything, Princeton told us they could not submit anything (we did not apply there anyway); Stanford could submit extras (though she was denied)…so if you have a kid who is truly going to commit to a club sport and has any level of play, especially going above and beyond varsity level, contact the club coach and see what they say. For a kid not able to play Div I, they might still get a tip to get into the Div I school for club level sports- especially if the school does not ahve varisty in that sport.

At one point D was deciding which of two sports to play in university and it seemed that both were eligble for some extra tip at admissions at many schools in California.

micromom · May 15, 2005, 10:34pm

Hi wyogal,
Heard of a local student (white female) here, from a not-so-great public high school, who got into Yale with the “Japanese hook”. She was not a native speaker but had taken several years of the language on her own and had started a club in her high school. Interestingly, she was the sal (highest math was pre-calc, dropped out of AP English). The six vals from her school did not get into Yale or the “other” schools usually mentioned along with Yale:-) This story was related to me by the student’s best friend who was a student in my class last semester. Another minor hook might have been that, she came from a “disadvantaged” background. Thought this story might interest you. Take care.

wyogal · May 16, 2005, 6:22pm

Iderochi,

3 colleges that come to mind immediately are Hampden-Sydney (VA), Davidson (NC) and Furman (SC). S2 & I have visited the last two. They all have fraternities, but not so dominant as on the big state U campuses. I think this is because most of the frats are not residential, and at H-S more than half are academic, not social.

I have tried in vain to get S2 to look at H-S, but after 7 years at a boys’ school he wants to try co-ed. But take it from a graduate of a women’s college, connecting with girls should not be a problem. There’s a bit of a mystique about single sex colleges, and on weekends there are always lots of visitors.

Both H-S and Davidson have formal Honor Codes. Other thoughts: Rice, which has no Greek system, and Rhodes, where about 80% of the students do some kind of community service activity.

Hanna · May 16, 2005, 6:28pm

New College of Florida and Eckerd College might interest him.

momsdream · May 16, 2005, 7:00pm

Speaking anecdotally, I don’t think advocates on campus work too well. In my limited experience, students who tried to make use of advocates wound up being denied admission…even though their stats were in line with the rest of the “typical” applicant pool. I’ve often wondered if the use of “advocates” turns off the Adcom.

At best, I think the communication that takes place between the student and their “contact” at the school demonstrates interest and a student’s initiative. But, to think that a person (other than a committee member or interviewer) might advocate for a particular student doesn’t strike me as being the best approach.

I’ve said this before…you never know who dislikes whom on the campus. The more you rely on personal references, the more you chance personal issues between that “advocate” and the Adcom.

I say let the record speak for iteself and let your Regional rep advocate for you. Barring that, everything else is pretty risky. And, if the Regional rep gets wind that you’re developing a relationship elsewhere on campus, they may not feel as inclined to put themselves out for you…they might feel like “if this is so an so’s candidate, let so and so come in and here go to bat for them”.

Suddenly, you’re not your rep’s “star” anymore. You’re someone else’s. Unless your advocate is in the room when the committee meets, I wouldn’t risk it.

lderochi · May 16, 2005, 7:07pm

Hanna – Thanks, I got a postcard from Eckerd today, as a matter of fact.

Wyogal – Thanks to you as well. Davidson and Furman are definitely on the list. Davidson will probably be a big reach, though. Furman sounds interesting.

H-S, well, I have to say that their initial mailing contained a picture of a “typical” H-S family at what looked like a football tailgater. Dad in a sweatshirt, polo shirt and golf cap, Mom in a button down and headband, little brother and the H-S student in blazer, tie and button-down. White Lhasa Apso with a ribbon. The picture just oozed old Southern preppiness. It was pretty much a picture of everything S isn’t! I know it’s a good school, and I’m hoping that the follow-up mailings will go over better – but it was the postal version of making a really bad first impression! Ah, well.

calmom · May 16, 2005, 7:12pm

wyogal, your post brings up a question I have - about a somewhat similar hook - but part of me tells me that I might be naive. I would like to encourage my d. to email profs in the department she is interested in, in the hopes that (among other things), she would find an advocate for her admission… but then, do profs really have that sort of influence?

I’ll stick with your example - Japanese- for my questions – my daughter’s “hook” is different, but close enough for comparison. I know that athletic coaches have a certain number of spots they can fill, and there is generally a formal process at the school for the coach to communicate with the ad com. But do profs in academic departments have similar influence?

You wrote, “BF will have an advocate who will make a lot of noise in the Admissions Office”. But do the Japanese or Asian Studies profs. have the same kind of pull? And if so, does any prof have influence, or is it something that needs to come from the head of the department? When the ad com gets BF’s application, will they contact the head of the Asian Studies department and ask for input? Would it be usual for a prof to spontaneously send a note to the ad com to tag a file - or is that one of those things that simply isn’t done or is frowned upon?

I can still see a tremendous value with emails or meeting a prof on campus – for other reasons – certainly it will help the student get a sense of the school and the department, the student may also get some excellent advice along the way, and if admitted, the student already has a friend among the faculty. I just don’t have a clue as to whether it really helps with admission. I would hate to see a kid shattered by a rejection after sustaining false hopes fostered by a solid relationship with a prof who just doesn’t have the connections that the kid thinks he has.

Again - I am ASKING - I honestly don’t have a clue - but I don’t want to mislead my own d. about the value of such a strategy in terms of admissions. We are looking at some reach schools where my daughter is on the low end as far as stats, but she is interested in what I would call an “endangered” major – one that was once vigorous, but where enrollments are declining at many schools, and which is being dropped from many schools. When a major gets dropped, or merged with another department, some profs lose their jobs.
Part of me says that profs at such schools will be anxious to have any kid they can find with a background and interest in this major… and part of me feels that if the profs are worried about keeping their own jobs and preserving their department’s budgets, they aren’t going to be in much of a position to influence the ad com.

calmom · May 16, 2005, 7:20pm

momsdream - your post hits very close to the question I am asking.

You referred to limited experience of students who tried to make use of “advocates” - can you clarify that? Did the students simply make contact, or seek out a letter of recommendation or some other show of formal support? Do you think that merely making contact without asking for admissions help could backfire?

I mean, it seems to me that, aside from the admissions question, it would make sense for a student to correspond with profs to get a sense of what the school offers, especially with smaller departments or more unusual majors. But I wouldn’t want to counsel my own d. to do something likely to backfire.

massguy · May 16, 2005, 9:25pm

Athletes dont have “hooks”…they have institutionally accepted recruitment goals of which they play an important role. It is important to remember that before trying to make any analogy between a student with a particular academic talent.

Another assumption you make is the genuine ability of the faculty as a whole to “make noise” in admissions. In fact, most schools have policies about keeping faculty OUT of such decisions unless they are actually named to the committe OR read files. More likely, however, there is an institutional policy in regards to evaluating students with special talents (i.e. music or art) which are the equivalent of an evaluative interview or audition.

In the case of Japanese, a student cannot avoid the fact that there is an SAT Subject test in Japanese. Any student who is serious about that interest will take that exam.

Ultimately, performance on that exam will go a lot further than e-mail (likely in English I am assuming) with a chair of a department who does not have the time or ability to truly evaluate an applicants skills.

cangel · May 16, 2005, 9:27pm

lderochi, you already know about Rhodes, but look at the community service scholarship (the Bonner, I think) they take it very seriously. Also Sewanee, if I’m remembering correctly has a student run EMS, they might like his fire-fighting, and as a reach, Amherst has student run EMS, DD stayed with one of the EMS team, and got to go out on a call - way cool. Concerneddad’s son also I think does that at Tulane.

lderochi · May 16, 2005, 10:18pm

Thanks cangel, I will pass the information along. By the time he graduates, S should have his HazMat and EMT certifications along with his basic firefighting, and he would definitely be interested in attending a college where he could stay active.

curmudgeon · May 16, 2005, 10:36pm

The way things have been going around here lately we’ll all have all three of our certifications before your son. :eek:

lderochi · May 16, 2005, 10:38pm

LOL. Too true. If some of the recent “material” isn’t “hazardous” I don’t know what is.

momsdream · May 16, 2005, 10:41pm

Calmom, the students I know of went above and beyond the usual email route. In one instance, the student went to lunch with the head of a department. In another instance, the applicant was good friends with the son of a professor, so the professor knew the applicant well (the applicant spent time at the home of the professor)…and the professor offered to “make a few calls”.

I’m not talking about simply corresponding via email and developing a dialogue that demonstrates a student’s proficiency or interest. I’m talking about taking it a step futher to when the “advocate” agrees to actually “advocate”.

I don’t know how professors handle email exchange from students they find interesting. Do they send the admissions office a copy of the email wiht a little note? Maybe “I hope this kid gets a fair shake, she sounds like someone who might thrive here”.

I would bet that far too many applicants try to use this method to gain a leg up. Professors might enjoy the dialogue, but I doubt they pass the word along to admissions…as they would spend all day “advocating” for kids who are emailing.

Then again, you never know what might “tip” you in.

the HOOK (aka finding an advocate on campus)

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