<p>I had a talk with my dad about this. I am leaning towards UCLA, a popular, hip school over UCB, a studious, ‘cutthroat?’ school. My dad told me that is no different from NYU being more popular than Columbia.</p>
<p>He said coming out of with a UCB diploma is extremely important, that employers will know that UCB is a great school that prepares its students very well. Having a UCB diploma will help me find jobs over having a higher GPA at other schools like UCLA.</p>
<p>He told me that there is a reason why a school like Berkeley has a “name value” that it doesn’t just come out of nowhere.</p>
<p>So, what do you think? Do you agree? Should I go to UCB?</p>
<p>Well a high GPA and internships (for engineers) is something you’ll need at any university you go to in the US, but I’d say that Berkeley will provide you with extra resources that you perhaps couldn’t find at another university. It really comes down to how much effort you’ll put in using all those resources. A college education is what you make of it. Good luck wherever you end up going!</p>
<p>I’m in the same boat as you…but not to the same degree as NYU vs. Columbia (Columbia is way better than NYU, though NYU is defintely a great school).</p>
<p>I really like UCLA, though I (and my dad) personally feel that UCB has a slightly bigger name recognition. It’s not tremendous at all though, which is why my choice is difficult.</p>
<p>LOL are you from out of state btw? Have you ever visited UCLA? Trust me, there are plenty of studious competitive kids there too.</p>
<p>Agreed, for most kids UCLA will be more “fun”. UCLA is by no means less competitive than UCB. But as Diivio points out, it’s exposure to extra resources that makes UCB a prestigious school. For example you could have attended speeches by Dalia Lama, Al Gore, Clinton etc last year for free at UCB. Checkout the leaders lecture series at: [Lecture</a> Series — Center for Entrepreneurship and Technology](<a href=“http://cet.berkeley.edu/teaching/lecture-series]Lecture”>http://cet.berkeley.edu/teaching/lecture-series)
If prestige and academics matter, checkout how China ranks world universities at [Academic</a> Ranking of World Universities (ARWU)](<a href=“http://www.arwu.org/]Academic”>http://www.arwu.org/)
Bottom line: UCB has already built a name recognition around the world and UCLA is working towards it.</p>
<p>You’re being ridiculous. There’s no way any school can be more or less fun, unless it’s a really small school with an overarching atmosphere. It all comes down to what you want to do, what sort of blend of partying, studying, and going out that you desire. Whatever that is, you’ll find people at Berkeley who agree with you.</p>
<p>Sure, some schools have larger proportions of people who like to have fun, but I bet you I can show you tons of people at UCSB who never go outside. On the flipside, I know people at Berkeley who sometimes go out every night of the week.</p>
<p>The only reason UCLA might be more fun for you is if you go there thinking it will be more fun.</p>
<p>To be honest, the name recognition between UCB and UCLA is not all that great. In fact, the acceptance rate at UCB is higher than at UCLA. The main reason that UCB is considered more prestigious is that it is the flagship UC. UCLA was built a few years later. However, some observations:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The campus at UCB is nicer; but, the buildings are not. I have found that UCB is a rather dirty place where the windows don’t get cleaned all that often. There are very few ‘newer’ buildings. UCLA on the other hand is in great condition and has many new buildings. (Note: the following are my opinions and observations)</p></li>
<li><p>I have been spit on by a homeless person during my one hour visit; I was told that this is a common occurrence.</p></li>
<li><p>Westwood (UCLA) is a much more modern/trendy city than Berkeley. Things are generally less crowded and the streets are a lot bigger. Also, the city is cleaner and wealthier (I view this as a good thing; however, some may disagree).</p></li>
<li><p>There is a lower crime rate in Westwood than in Berkeley.</p></li>
<li><p>The biggest difference will be the student body. Frankly, I believe that Berkeley students will likely become the very smart people who work behind the scenes solving major problems. However, I think that UCLA students will be the leaders. I have found UCLA students to be more confident and personable.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>In the nature of full disclosure: I am a Berkeley admit and a UCLA reject. Needless (at this point) to say, I wish I had been admitted to UCLA. I have lived in LA my whole life.</p>
<p>In most fields, UCB has a much stronger name. Thus, it pulls in stronger students who work harder. IMO, the difference in reputation is significant enough that this is a non-decision vs UCLA unless there’s some exceptional reason. At the undergrad level, this doesn’t matter so much. But if you want to go to a PhD program, for example, you’re more likely to work for a world-famous professor at Berkeley whose LOR would hold a lot of weight. If your main concern is GPA, I don’t think UCLA is the right choice unless it has some reputation for grade inflation that I don’t know of. In general, private schools are known for coddling and grade inflation (eg Brown).</p>
<p>UCLA is a much better atmosphere, but it barely makes top 30 for chemical engineering (my major). But I can’t say much, because the last time I visited Berkeley was in the 6th grade. I’m visiting the campus this Tuesday. So unless I absolutely hate the environment, I’ll probably end up at Cal.</p>
<p>UCLA is not any less “cutthroat” depending on your major. I think you can find good and bad things about every college campus; it really depends on which good things you enjoy and which bad things you can tolerate.</p>
<p>Your dad is right. Take it from a guy in the working world. Berkeley holds much more “name value” than UCLA. Frankly, I don’t think its even close. I live in SoCal and UCLA grads are a dime a dozen here. I have people come into my office, see the UC diploma and automatically say “UCLA?” When I tell them I went to Cal, the eyebrows always lift.</p>
<p>Now, I’m not saying you’re going to get a better education at Cal. You’re going to get a stellar education at both UCLA and Cal. But when it comes to name recognition and the percieved prestige among employers and your co-workers, Cal is clearly tops. I guarantee you that, all things being equal, the Cal grad has a better chance at landing a top notch job than a UCLA grad. Tech/Engineering, Silicon Valley? Cal. Finance (NYC, consulting firms like Bain, international finance)? Cal. Public policy (D.C.)? Cal. The only area which I think a UCLA grad has a bit more leg up is Media/Arts, but just because of its proximity to Hollywood and the industry there.</p>
<p>As for being “fun,” I really don’t understand how people think Berkeley is not fun. Its was a blast for me. My younger bro went to UCLA and I was bored to death everytime I visited. Yeah, Berkeley is wild, crazy, uninhibited, chaotic. That’s why its fun! You get out of class, go get a slice of pizza and watch crazy hippies on milk crates yelling about how the end of the world is near. Hilarious. College, for me, was about getting to experience the world in all of its unvarnished, messy glory. Cal gave it to me in spades.</p>
<p>Anyways…back to my point. Your dad’s right.</p>
<p>Berkeley’s name value comes from its international recognition as having tops researchers in a stunning number of fields. Some of this, but not necessarily much, carries over to undergrad, HUGELY DEPENDING ON MAJOR AND FUTURE CAREER CHOICE.</p>
<p>Perceived prestige of your undergrad major will make much more of a difference if you are doing, say, engineering. A lot of bright people are attracted to Berkeley engineering simply because people say it’s the best out there. And it’s really rigorous. So surviving the engineering at Berkeley usually says something special to employers. I know this from knowing people who actually are engineers (senior) and have had to employ young people. </p>
<p>Also, webhappy’s post is right on.</p>
<p>Think about it. Berkeley’s literature, history, etc are all great, but most of the folks I know don’t go “Oh my god you’re majoring in history at Berkeley, wow!” They would just go “It’s great you go to Berkeley, such a good school!” But when you say you’re majoring in engineering at Berkeley, it quite often has an additional effect, because the major is simply harder on average. General perceived rigor is important, but you have to restrict to the subcategory of employers you want to consider.</p>
<p>Haha yes the name value matters and I agree that Berkeley is a lot more fun at UCLA. We have a frat row! you can party every thursday/friday/saturday night and at least half the people who live in the res halls (units especially) do go out every weekend and get wasted. </p>
<p>UCLA does not have a frat row or even frat houses with regular parties. Their only parties are in real clubs and are much harder to get into, cost money, and have to be much more careful about underage drinking lol. My friends are always whining about that.</p>
<p>I read this article when I was a junior in high school. Read the whole thing if you can, but if not, here’s a quote that might help you make your decision.</p>
<p>"Often one of the parents, usually the father, would tell me about the way he had chosen his own college, how it had been a painless and straightforward process. Often the choice had hinged on geography (many had gone to UCLA) or the recommendation of a guidance counselor or a parent. These remarks never concluded with a confession that “because of the indiscriminate nature of my college-selection process, I sit before you as dumb as a bunny rabbit.” Nor should they have. The parents tended to be highly—sometimes stratospherically—successful. "</p>
<p>Prestige might contain a kernel of truth, but it is largely the result of good marketing and an illustrious history. The things you can learn at Berkeley, you can certainly learn at UCLA. There are threads in this forum which prove that having first-rate faculty does not lead to better instruction.</p>
<p>@ graduated31: That’s one of the most spectacular, exciting descriptions I’ve ever read about Cal. Having lived in SF all my life, I completely agree with you. My God…I want to be a Golden Bear. Alas, another two weeks of waiting for me. Thank you for your insight and sharing that wonderful description!</p>
<p>No on here is talking about better instruction. In fact, probably more famous professors have less time to prepare for teaching and thus are generally known for being worse teachers. Teaching is certainly not a big criterion for hiring at either UCB or UCLA (at least in most science/engineering fields).</p>
<p>BTW, I can’t tell what your excerpted paragraph means except I read into it what I already believe–that the world is way more competitive today so people could breeze through college and begin a successful career 30 years ago.</p>
<p>Ummm I dont really get what you’re saying here. </p>
<p>Can it be that you are considering going to a school because of name value/ your dad’s opinion/ generalizations? </p>
<p>I got into both Berkeley and UCLA, and after visiting them I cant think of anything that Cal beats UCLA in besides academics ( and UCLA is better in certain areas).</p>
<p>To me, the only way you can choose is by actually visiting the colleges and attending classes at each college.</p>