<p>Way to ruin my thread…can’t we all just get along. Basically, you’re both right, leave it at that.</p>
<p>is this the first year that SATIIs are only recommended?</p>
<p>no, well I’m sure that they were also ‘only recommended’ in '09, but I’m not sure how much earlier after that.</p>
<p>@ InvisibleMan023</p>
<p>From my point of view, you started off by saying my being Hispanic was “the MAJOR factor.” While I agree that is was a factor, you initially dismissed my other accomplishments by denoting “the” (singular) instead of just one of many. Maybe that’s not your intention, but it’s what I read. Then you went on to say that an ‘Asian’ version of me had no chance of admission, and that is not true. Less of a chance, most definitely, but still a respectable chance.</p>
<p>Also, just so it’s known, I never mentioned I was low-income or from a single-parent household (with many siblings) anywhere in my application. I didn’t feel it was relevant to what I wanted to convey. I think those factors contributed to my ambitions, but they aren’t things I value in and of themselves. It’s interesting to think they didn’t know any of those things, but still choose me. I guess they somehow knew I would add diversity in more ways than I explicitly stated.</p>
<p>Affe, you don’t need to defend yourself. You are incredible and obviously Stanford also saw that.
People are just bitter about AA. I’m sure your minority status was not “what got you in”. CCers give URM status way too big priority which diminishes the success of URMS who could have gotten in without the hook. </p>
<p>Your essays must have been really great for your teachers to compliment you. I hate how people automatically a low SAT accepted means that they are an URM. I know people with sub 2000 SATs who are white.</p>
<p>I realize something today. Almost every CCer is a selfish, arrogant jerk. If you want to talk about URM’s at least do it on your own thread. Everyone thinks they can get away with anything.</p>
<p>what are the basic requirements to get into Stanford? eg. SAT scores,Gpa,etc</p>
<p>Hmm…I don’t believe that the general sentiment is against those of underrepresented minorities or that those said minorities were accepted to prestigious universities. Many of them most definitely deserved their admissions and should be proud of their accomplishments. What’s being fundamentally attacked is that apparent boost that seems to augment URM applications. Essentially, some applicants, based on their race alone, are being given that advantage which is in turn considered unfair. Note that this isn’t a socioeconomic affirmative action policy, but one based on ethnic grounds. As an admit, I still feel that such systems of selectivity, although formed in best interests, antagonize students of different races, but also devalue the very URMS who receive the so-called boost. I know personally (and regrettably) that when I see an African American (or [insert URM]) at an elite school, the thought of the “diversity admit” quickly flashes through my mind. Without even taking into account the academic record or extracurriculars of that person, I make a bigoted generalization that leaves not only me ashamed, but keeps those admits in doubt of their own qualifications. And when it boils down to it, I honestly understand the anger and controversy spawned by affirmative action and that it does pose some very real world problems for prospective university students, ORM and URM.</p>
<p>I agree with you^! Those are the exact reasons why I don’t agree with AA. However with socioeconomic policy would students be given preference based on their low parent’s income or economic surroundings based on environment and school? </p>
<p>I know of many low income students who got to top private schools with the best teachers. These students have fairly wealthy grandparents or other relatives, have nice cars, good size houses, etc. but their parents incomes are low. I find it unfair for these students who have a better educational surrounding than I do, to have an “edge”, while my parent’s earn more money, but I go to a really bad school.How would schools tell the difference?</p>
<p>I also find it unfortunate that the stigma of “supposed underachieving” URMS at top schools will be present even if AA is long gone. It is horrible that the accomplishments of people like AFFE are undervalued because he is a URM. But even if racial AA is gone, people will still believe that URMS were given an edge in admissions. ( Even now top schools don’t admit to giving racial advantage to URMs )</p>
<ol>
<li><p>People need to leave Affe alone. I also hope Affe isn’t getting to upset. Just remember that at the end of the day you will be going to Stanford and most people on this forum won’t be. Many of them may pick at you due to their frustration at not getting through the application process. That is their drama, not yours. Congrats.</p></li>
<li><p>The above post is incorrect (at least in the case of Stanford) as the university is open that it has affirmative action as a piece of its admissions process.</p></li>
<li><p>People that argue that socioeconomic status based affirmative action should replace a race based one typically have a rather naive view of how race works in the US. Just for a small piece, even if you go to a nice high school (I went to an extremely good high school), as a black student I was always expected to underperform my peers. I still remember a white kid (that didn’t know me except that I was on the basketball team) asked me if I had applied to any colleges early. I said yes, Harvard. He responded, “dont you have to have good grades to get into Harvard?” lol? I was the strongest technical student in the school. Most of the kids I was around didn’t really know any black people except for the variety that show up on MTV. And, unfortunately, a lot of times when minorities are thrown into situations where they are the token, their race because the biggest point of distinction for them and they start to take on stereotypes more than they usually would (which often includes performing less strong academically). It’s like all the studies done when you take a group of men and a group of women (controlling for ability/grades in math) the same math test, but you tell some of women beforehand that women typically do worse on the math test than men… and they end up doing worst than a group of women that wasn’t told anything. Similar things are true for minorities. For further reading, look up some research on stereotype threat (a term first coined by a professor here at Stanford).</p></li>
<li><p>I know people think of me as a diversity admit all the time at Stanford. I personally feel as though that’s a racist thought. You’d think that the white/asian people (and even many of the minority students as well) that go to a school like Stanford would be bright enough to have a more complicated view of race issues. It’s so ridiculous how people think that if you go to a nice high school or a nice college that you officially haven’t be “disadvantaged” by being a minority. That is absurd. You constantly are having to prove yourself moreso than others, which is exhausting. I took a graduate statistical finance course last quarter (ridiculous math class) and it took me forever to find a group for the project. I’m a pretty nice guy (a lot nicer than most of the graduate technical students at Stanford), and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t that I was a personality issue. I honestly think it was that</p></li>
<li><p>they didn’t know me</p></li>
<li><p>I am an american (most students in this type of math class will be international, this course is required for fin math students, which had 25 international students and 2 americans last year)</p></li>
<li><p>I am black, and the only black person in the class (which is the case in almost every class I take at this point). Don’t even get me started on job interviews as well. I study CS/Math/Statistics at Stanford, and when I show up to an interview for a quant type job, along with 50 asian/white students, you better believe that I have to work harder than others to prove my ability. and this is despite a 3.9 gpa at stanford. Last quarter, I had a job interview with a company that was my first choice at the time that to this day does not employee ANY black or latino people. How can you tell me that I’m not at a disadvantage of some kind going into that interview when everyone else interviewing is white/asian?</p></li>
<li><p>While I will be the first to admit that there are definitely some minorities at stanford that are pretty suspect as to whether or not they should really be here, there are also a LOT of just dumb white/asian students as well (especially a lot of the premed types). I don’t know what their SAT scores were or any of that–I’ll assume they did well but they really, really aren’t that bright. In fact, I’m about to go take a physics midterm right now with a bunch of them. I should thank them in advance for the curve.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>P.S. I’m not normally that mean/arrogant, but this kind of **** ****es me off.</p>
<p>peace.</p>
<p>^ I don’t doubt your achievements or abilities at all. Like I told Affe, He is very talented and a unique individual that definitely deserved Stanford. </p>
<p>What I find fault with AA ( Once again a thread completely unrelated becomes a mosh for AA debate) is the statement that President Gerhard Casper stated in 1995 “Affirmative action is based on the judgment that a policy of true equal opportunity needs to create opportunities for members of historically underrepresented groups to be drawn into various walks of life from which they might otherwise be shut out. Barriers continue to exist in society, and therefore affirmative action asks us to cast our net more widely to broaden the competition and to engage in more active efforts for locating and recruiting applicants.” </p>
<p>If this statement was to hold true than asians would also be considered as URMs but they are not.</p>
<p>I mean, I dont know why this particular statement is important to you or anything (it doesn’t say much of anything interesting), but its hard to imagine that asians should be considered URMs when they are all over the place at top schools. I think by focusing on the “historical” bit of that statement you are really missing ALL of the “meat” behind why affirmative action (still) makes sense. You really have to get into thinking about the history of race in the US as well as how race is experienced currently (with all the stereotypes and such that are a part of it). The type of argument you are beginning to make is extremely lazy/not very good. </p>
<p>On a different but related note, I get the impression from this forum that people think the standards are higher for asian students than for others in terms of numbers. I fairly certain this is untrue. I get the impression that a disproportionate number of asian students/families try to get into places like stanford more or less purely on numbers (being in honor society/math club/tutoring/volunteering/etc doesn’t make anyone special) which is always going to be hard to do. Part of this I’m told is because a lot of Asian universities have admissions processes that are extremely numbers based. I just know that I’ve talked to an awful lot of asian students/parents about admissions to stanford and they frequently never really get passed the sat/gpa/etc. </p>
<p>I also happen to be in a bit of a unique position to get impressions like the one mentioned just above, although Im not going to elaborate on that publicly in this forum.</p>
<p>There are many stereotypes and racism towards asians and whites too. Your entire second paragraph solidifies this idea. Your opinion that asians are number-oriented towards college admissions and are most likely involved in " honor society/math club/tutoring/volunteering/etc " is already a generalization that asians have tried to escape. There are many asians who are involved in basketball, student council etc… </p>
<p>I don’t believe that people should be given an edge because of their race or because they have “possibly” suffered disadvantages being a certain race. AA does give more diversity to college campuses which I believe is extremely important, but to give people an advantage based on their ethnicity is racist. </p>
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<p>I really don’t care because every thread seems to become about AA, that I’m just tired of talking about the same topic. I really don’t want to discuss this anymore, ( the OP has already stated that he dislikes different topics on his threads) and if you feel the need to discuss this even more there is a whole thread devoted to race and other’s opinions about AA</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/809185-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-6-a.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/809185-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-6-a.html</a></p>
<p>Go crazy :)</p>
<p>I clicked this thread hoping to hear about subject tests, and now I get this URM talk? What the heck…</p>
<p>Hey BigMike…wat did you get on the SAT…just curious.</p>
<p>I have one answer for all of you…sometimes life isn’t fair. Deal with it. You should not wish away your ethnicity and wealth.</p>