The Ivy League is Pushing It

Applying to College
1

Before I start I just want to disclaim that I realize that the ivies want to promote diversity and Blacks and Hispanics should be given an advantage but I think they are pushing it too far. My friend and I (both Asian Males, class rank 2 and 5 respectively) were rejected from all our top choices while a Hispanic from our school got in everywhere (rank 52). Here are my stats vs. his so you can see for yourself.

Mine:
ACT: 34
SAT Subject Tests: 760 Bio M, 780 Math 2
Class Rank: 2/384
GPA: 3.93
APs: Bio (5), Chem (5), Enviro (5), US History (5), Psych (5), Stats (5), Lang (4), Calc BC (5), Physics, Gov, Macro, Euro, (All taking now), Also taking calc 3 and linear algebra at local college

Subjective:
Intel STS Semifinalist: 3 Years of Research, 2 full-time summers, around 1400 hours total.
Piano - State Level Difficult Class Festival Winner- 1st Place
Trombone - All County Musician
Fitness Club (President) - School Pull-up Record (32 Pull-ups)
Science Olympiad (Captain) - Various Regional Medals
Filmmaking Club (President) - State Level Awards
Debate Club (President)
Physics Olympiads (Treasurer)
Varsity Tennis and Black Belt in Karate

Volunteering:
250 Hours with 2 Awards.
150 Hours at Hospital

URM’s:
ACT: 35
Subject Tests: IDK
Class Rank: 52/384
GPA: Around 3.7
APs: He’s only taken 3 total with a few more senior year: US (5), Lang (4), Psych (4)

Subjective:
State level trumpet player
Model UN, FBLA (VP), School Newspaper

Volunteering: around 100 hours

Now I understand that URMs should have an advantage over asian males like me, but I think this is pushing it too far. I know essays and recs (which I believe mine were phenomenal) play a role and he may have had ridiculously good ones, but I think it’s a bit too much that this guy is able to get into schools like Yale, Brown, Duke etc. b/c he’s hispanic while I’m left with rejections or waitlists from the same schools he got into b/c I’m an asian male.

Anyways what do you guys think? Are the Ivies pushing it too far with this whole URM thing?

And don’t you guys think it’s hypocritical how the Ivies believe in equality when they are blatantly exhibiting unfairness in admissions?

I will be attending a state university this upcoming fall after all the hard work I put in while this guy is able to choose from so many great options just b/c of his ethnicity.

2

Here we go! The semi-annual jeremiad.

What do we think? Just as the same as in 2004, 2005, 2006, and all the years that followed. There are people who might be interested to add your account to their litigious panoply. They even have a website.

What else do I think? That a URM with less aptitude than test specialists did best the ranked 2 and 5 on the ACT is a departure from the normal! Think about it!

3

Dude, please, don’t do this.

And I’m actually sympathetic to part of this…no matter what the schools say, it truly does appears that Asian males have more trouble than others getting into certain colleges. But you didn’t not get in every top college that you applied to because an Hispanic kid also applied to a few of them (an Hispanic kid with a freakin 35 on his ACT, btw,…and who might have had incredible essays and LORs that blew yours out of the water…not saying that’s the case…just saying that I don’t know. And you don’t either).

This website is awash in highly talented kids right now who didn’t get into any choices that they had an interest in…there are no sure bets.

4

Stop worrying about other people. In college, career, life, that is not how one rises to the top. Self pity is not endearing either. If you disagree so vigorously with how the “Ivys” are run, then you shouldn’t want to go to such schools.

5

All of the highly qualified URMs from my school got slaughtered by the ivies. No ivy acceptances this year, only 1 stanford

6

Many colleges say that they aren’t looking for a well rounded student, but rather a well rounded class. So, it will appear that URMs are chosen above others. However, it’s also been established that highly selective school say that 75% - 90% (I’ve seen a range) of their applicants are qualified. So, the seats don’t go to the top 5% or 8% or 12% of applicants (statistically speaking). The seats go to qualified applicants who fit into what the school is looking for in a whole class.

7

What makes you think that a URM admit (with a 35 ACT no less) has less to add to the college community because he has a lower GPA? There are so many factors that could explain a lower GPA and the admissions office apparently saw some of them. The school is crafting a class and although it needs capable scholars and thinkers, there is so much more to that process. Maybe the admissions office was advised they needed a state level trumpet player and this URM status is irrelevant? Your disappointment is understandable but that is why they call it holistic admissions. Any top school could fill its entire class with ACT 35+ valedictorians and they all could do the work but fortunately for them they can use subjective measures to craft a more interesting class with regards to ECs, geography, race, and economic background.

8

So you are telling me that Yale, Brown, Duke, Cornell, and Dartmouth all needed a state trumpet player so badly that they’d discount the massive difference in academic ability, my Intel award, leadership capability and sports?

By the way my friend that I mentioned is also a state level trumpet player so it clearly wasn’t b/c of that.

9

I was quite surprised with how much being a URM helps when I saw the admission results this year. I knew it helps, but I didn’t know to what extent. Well, a URM student at my school got into MIT and with a SAT score in the 1800s and another one got into Cornell with a score in the same range.

10

@fallcolors‌ are you insinuating that there aren’t enough high-stat URMs to fill these schools that the standards would drop? Cause that’s kinda…oh what’s the word? I’m sure it’ll come to me later.

11

Don’t get hung up on what’s basically a lottery with the IVY’s.

You obviously have worked your butt off and have stellar research skills, so I would save your money, get a 4.0 at the state school, do research, try and get published and rock grad school with great faculty recommendations.

My buddy’s son just beat out a Yale grad for a plum PHD program and he went to a lowly state university. Also happened to a friend of mine all the way back in 1978 and they went on to to a fabulous career at the World Bank.

Plus what evidence is there that as you say they believe in “equality”.

In many ways the IVYs are a joke and a disgrace even if they do serve a “utilitarian” purpose.

They’re hardly alone in that regard.

grab a cold one…and move on.

12

Hi there OP,

ACT - 35
SAT II - 710, 690, 680
4.2 weighted GPA
8 AP’s with a 4 or higher before senior year (Chem, Bio, Stats, APUSH, H.Geo, Lang, APES, WHAP) Psych (3)
University Bioengineering and Genetics Courses
Senior schedule - 8 AP’s
Writing Awards/Editor-In-Chief of Literary Magazine
Placed in Regional and State in Engineering Tournaments
Placed in Science UIL at multiple levels
Varsity in two sports
2 Years Cancer Research
200+ Hours Volunteering
Psychology Club (President)
Recs - Excellent
Essay’s - Great (I’m a writer; want to double major in English and Engineering in college)

Rejected from 7 Ivies plus Stanford, waitlisted at Dartmouth.

I feel your pain and totally agree with you OP…

Oh wait I DON’T because I’m URM, FIRST GEN, and income is <$15,000. Would you like to explain that? When a school’s acceptance rate hovers or dips well below the 10% range, DO NOT EXPECT TO GET IN. Look what I just posted. Can we at least agree that I am a bit comparable to you, if not close? These schools are NOT just handing out acceptances to URM’s. If so, then whoop-didoo! I’d be at Stanford. Ivy league schools and their peers are competitive period. It’s ridiculous to assume that URM’s have it so easy. THE COMPETITION IS JUST AS INTENSE FOR US AS IT IS FOR EVERYONE ELSE. We’re not a bunch of schmucks applying to these schools because hell, why not? This irks me so much because many qualified URM’s get rejected every application cycle and people like you seem so eager to skim over that fact. I think people on cc can attest that I never generally get mad, but viewpoints like this are just so off base.

Go enjoy and be GRATEFUL for your state university because many Americans don’t even go to college, not to mention a four year university. //rant over

13

“Success is determined by the quality of a person, not the quality of an institution.”

If you were able to achieve all of these things while in high school, there is nothing (except yourself) holding you back from achieving even more in college.

Forget about what college other people get into and focus on yourself. Nothing you post here or anywhere else will have an impact on the college admissions process, especially when you’re already beating a dead horse.

14

The kid has a higher ACT score than you…

15

^ Pfft, don’t you know that test scores don’t matter? Why? Because that doesn’t fit the OP’s argument. :stuck_out_tongue:

16

I’m sorry that you didn’t get into the schools you wanted to. I remember feeling like the my whole entire life was culminating in success or failure when my college decisions started rolling in. And that an Ivy acceptance would be like an angel descending from Heaven to tell me that I was one of the “smartest” and most innovative people in the world, and that I deserved the “best” education in America. And even though I don’t consider myself to be a very prideful person, it still was a blow to my ego when I got rejected.

But think of this as a reality check. Nobody is entitled to anything. Sometimes you get rewarded for your hard work, and sometimes you don’t. Is that what it was all about anyway? All the time you spent learning, and serving others, and having experiences that the vast majority of the world will never have in a lifetime… Do you regret it, now that there’s no tangible reward? Does this decision determine a single thing about your future other than that you’re not going to spend the next four years at colleges X, Y, and Z?

You can have however long you need to grieve for the life you thought you were going to live, and the space to rant about why giving qualified minorities your spot was the epitome of cruelty. But I hope that you’ll eventually get to the point where you can say, at the very least, “This really sucks, but I’ll be okay.” Because it does suck, but you really will be okay.

17

An Hispanic with ACT of 35? You should have stop typing after that smh!

I’ve heard and believe that Hispanics are competing for admission against others of the same ethnicity and Asians against their own ethnicity and so on. This process allows for a more diverse community of incoming students and promote different perspectives in the learning environment. This is why you sometimes see URM with average ACT/SAT scores get into these top schools compare to those that aren’t URM.

As stated before on this thread, it takes more than just scores to get in now than ever before. Looking over your extracurriculars, it doesn’t focus on one main interest that you want to pursue. It just looks like an average resume (not trying to bash, just pointing out what I see).

URM used to be a huge advantage in the admission process, but now it’s just a plus since so many URM are applying. Most schools (not being specific) have around 10-13% Hispanics, while there is around 30-40% Asians, so ante up.

18

Who told you the ivies practice equality? You honestly need to get over yourself a little bit and relax. That kid did not take you’re spot, and people with your credentials are a dime a dozen at Ivies. You have no idea what this kid’s extinuating circumstances, or his past experiences that he may have written about. That’s the whole poimt of holistic admissions.

Blacks are racially profiled at an alarming rate, and often serve 20% more jailtime for crimes commited by whites nationwide, yet every day people want to act like the fact that a fraction of the ~150 blacks or ~150 latinos Columbia accepts every year are not necessarilly the best possible applicants is the biggest afront to civil liberties imaginable.

Im not trying to demean you or say that you dom’t have a reason to be upset you didn’t get in, but blaming discrimination on why is close to laughable.

19

I;ve seen far greater discrepancy than that. Plus if you go on some college NPCs, you’ll find that they are far more test score sensitive thatn GPA when it comes to merit money. Unless the GPA falls below a certain threshhold. So, no, your Latino classmate was well within standard deviations even if he had nothing else going for him, of which you may not have an inkling. An essay that hit just the right spots, great recs, some back story that was great. He could well have been a non URM and beaten you guys out with hits right there. And if he gives hints that he’ll march in in one of those uniforms during sports game, playing that trumpet, that counts a lot more than a piano which is a very selfish instrument.

20

@cptofthehouse
LOL! What does that mean?