<p>“That’s right. And as a group, some of the most successful immigrants in the country are the ones from Africa. Go firgure…”</p>
<p>That’s because they value education and incur in their kids decent values as a group. Thay detest attempts to group them with blacks who are born here because they have so little identification with urban ghetto culture.</p>
<p>The recent African immigrant success shows that it is not blind prejudice that influences people’s attitudes in this country. It’s the culture and how people are and what they do day-to-day. Basically, these recent African immigrants generally try to stay out of trouble and succeed. With the same potential roadblocks that any person of color in this country could face, they are succeeding. No excuses. Just hard work and good values.</p>
<p>Every thinking person tends to agree that violence is almost never justified. I agree. However, history also shows that violent incidents such as this can sometimes be a stong catalyst for change. An argument could be made, for example, that had Bell and his cohorts merely registered complaints and charges with local authorities, understanding what we now know about the disposition of those authorities, the institutionalized and systematic racism in Jena would have never been exposed. It was only due to the unfortunate escalation of events that the magnitude of racial corruption practiced in that community was revealed. </p>
<p>Does that justify violence? No, I don’t so, and that is not what I’m suggesting. Yet, the racism in Jena, from the school adminstrators to the judicial system, was so pervasive that I personally believe it was inevitable. Jena is not a community whose leaders demonstrated any interest in fairness, equality, or mitigating the potential consequences of racial conflict except to the extent they could suppress its non-white population. Blame Bell and the others all you want, they are indeed guilty of assault. But the framework for this disaster was not created by them, nor should they be forced to disproportionately shoulder the burden of it. </p>
<p>People have referred to the Jena 6 as thugs, criminals, victims, and heroes depending on their specific point of view. However, I would say that above all else they are just human beings, and sadly, they engaged in a very human response to the dynamics of that particular environment. </p>
<p>That still doesn’t make it right or okay, but it’s just silly for some of the people here to repeatedly pass judgement entirely out of context.</p>
<h2>Idmom06, you made it sounds like there’s a concerted effort to “strip them of opportunity”. </h2>
<p>Hey there neil…I’m trying to figure out how you glean JUST this inaccurate inference from post and nothing else. My point was…anyone who finds themselves in desperate circumstances may take desperate action. Contrary to edvest’s racist pov that violence is a ‘black thing’, history tells us the exact opposite is true. For example, the Five Points was one of the most desperate, disadvantaged and violent urban areas on this earth in the 19th century…and it was full of Caucasians of Irish descent.</p>
<p>razor - that’s a pretty politically stringent blog you are linking. I like the pov’s that aren’t strained throught the Republican, or Democratic, colander before they are served up.</p>
<p>Nevertheless…two separate issues. Have Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton tainted this case with their involvement. Yes. Was it right to charge these minors as adults with attempted murder and conspiracy? No.</p>
Agreed. But his views are not based on his political affiliation. I don’t see this as a republican or democrat thing. His views are based on facts that seem to be glazed over by the people wishing to create civil rights heroes out of thugs.</p>
<p>Razorsharp…the boys who had that fight are not heroes. However, racism definitely was pervasive in the school and legal system in that town. Had it not been an issue of injustice related to racism, this case would not get the attention that it has. But the boys are not heroes. </p>
<p>You mention people looking for racism wherever they can find it…well, I am not sure which “people” you are referring to, but my own point of view would cringe if someone pulled the “race card” any time that a person of race was involved in an illegal act, etc. So, I’m not into that either. However, in THIS case…it IS a race case. Not all cases involving those of color have anything to do with race. In this case, the treatment of those involved of one race were treated differently than those of another AND there was a hate crime related to race involved that was not dealt with appropriately. If this was some other illegal act and it happened to involve both Black and White citizens but without any racial overtones or if both were treated equally by the system, I would be against accusations of racism. Many feel this case is a case of blatant racism andd are appalled it is going on in today’s society and that the school or legal system there contributed to the racism in its handling of matters. THAT is why the case has made such news. Even the governor got involved in asking the DA to not appeal trying the boy as a juvenile.</p>
<p>And that is another good point sooz. Why, after Bell’s conviction was overturned for being handed down in adult court, was the DA’s first reaction to appeal the decision and try to nail this kid AGAIN with adult charges? To me, it just smacked of ego, hubris and even retaliation.</p>
<p>razor - I think there are TWO groups of manipulative people involved here.</p>
<p>The first group is obvious…Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have attempted to portray the black youths as something they are not (they ARE victims of unfair judicial treatment, but they are not innocent victims). </p>
<p>HOWEVER, razor, don’t discount the manipulation found in those who work the ‘flipside of the coin’. Unfortunately, it is quite lucrative to be in the business of disagreeing with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. And in the course of conducting that business, this group spins the facts just as hard as Jackson and Sharpton. </p>
<p>While Jesse and Al would have the world believe these kids are civil rights heros, the Anti-Jesses and Anti-Als would have the world believe that anyone who takes issue with the unfair judicial system in Jena agrees with Jesse and Al. </p>
<p>Both groups are playing fast and hard with the truth.</p>
<p>“Basically, these recent African immigrants generally try to stay out of trouble and succeed. With the same potential roadblocks that any person of color in this country could face, they are succeeding. No excuses. Just hard work and good values.”</p>
<p>Interesting you should say that. There have been shootings outside zoosersister’s school two days in a row. Major conflict between the African American and Liberian communities. Different values and not meshing at all. Amazingly, no one was killed.</p>
I agree that you do not believe the 6 are heroes; but it is clear that many, many people believe otherwise. There have been protests throughout the country where people show up to demand that the Jena 6 be freed, as if the thugs are the victims. I cringe when I see pictures of people with signs saying Free the Jena 6. Surely, they will cheer if Bell and his gang are set free to do more harm on the community. All six of them belong in jail for a nice long time. </p>
<p>If a group if six males (some of them athletes) jumped your son (assuming you have one) from behind and beat the daylights out of him, how would you feel about freeing them?</p>
<p>And, how do you know that Bell did not beat the white male because he was white and did not like getting some lip from a white male?</p>
<p>zoosermom - were both groups using violent tactics? I know MANY Liberian young men in NYC are refugees who used to be ‘boy soldiers’ in the Liberian civil war. The largest concentration is found in NYC. Could be more than a failure to mesh.</p>
<p>razor - As I’ve said before, if my son were the victim, I would expect all to be charged in juvenile court and punished. I would expect Mychal Bell to be placed in a juvenile facility since he had a prior record of assault. I would expect the charges and sentences to be color blind. </p>
<p>I have NEVER said they should be freed. Not one poster on CC has said that.</p>
<p>See…even you are falling into the Anti-Jesse trap razor. You are making wrong assumptions about those who disagree with a racist judicial system and incorrectly extrapolating they also view the boys as pure and worthy of freedom.</p>
I don’t see how you can reach that conclusion. You are looking at only one piece of the puzzle making up the judicial system. The judicial system includes the appellate court that reversed Bell’s conviction and returned the case to the lower court for retrial. The judicial system worked in LA and there is nothing unfair about it.</p>
<p>“zoosermom - were both groups using violent tactics? I know that MANY Liberian young men in NYC are refugees who used to be ‘boy soldiers’ in the Liberian civil war. The largest concentration is found in NYC”</p>
<p>The largest concentration is on Staten Island, right in the neighborhood of my daughter’s school. Both sides use violence, but it tends to be more violence and more weapons and instigated by the African American community. There is a huge amount of resentment, but I have no idea why. IDMom, I’d like to tell you how much I’ve appreciated the clarity you’ve brought to this thread. I hadn’t known much about the case, but you’ve really informed me and set me to looking for further information. I admire the way you communicate to so clearly and fairly but still put forth your opinion.</p>
I agree that many of the CC posters are not as duped as is the general public. My comments are about the public’s perception that Bell and his gang are defenders of civil rights when they so blantently took the civil rights of the boy they beat. </p>
<p>I am not falling for the anit-Jesse trap. Jackson and Sharpton are leading the way, but there are many many people and media groups right there beside them.</p>
<h2>“The judicial system worked in LA and there is nothing unfair about it.”</h2>
<p>Ah, but that’s the same logic that says the ‘system worked’ for the Duke LAX boys. </p>
<p>Public outrage is an important and integral part of our system and yes, in both cases, public outrage played an important part in steering a wayward system back on course. But our public officials are bound to discharge their duties free of unseemly motives like racism or lust for power or cowardice.</p>
<p>thanks zoos - right back at you! I appreciate getting your take on things as well. The previous immigration thread made me realize what is true for me here in Texas is not necessarily true in NYC, or any other place in this world. I think things through a little better now because of your pov! ;)</p>
I like the pov’s that aren’t strained throught the Republican, or Democratic, colander before they are served up.</p>