The Jena 6

Parent Cafe
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<p>If you think the system worked on its own, well, I disagree. The charges were lowered and went to juvie court due to public outrage. </p>

<p>I don’t see anyone on this thread saying to “free” those who assaulted someone else but I do see many who feel that the charges were over and beyond, that it should be handled in juvie court, and that appropriate consquences for an assault are meted out…BUT only if those who perpetrated assaults against the Black youth in that town are handled equally and only if a jury is a jury of their peers (it was an all White jury) and only if the school and legal system deals with the racist acts that initiated a lot of this situation…that of the nooses. Using the words “free the Jena 6” out of context sounds nice, but I don’t think that is truly the issue. I don’t see anyone condoning assaults. I do see that the school administrators and legal system failed the students who were being persecuted. They should not have taken it into their own hands through physical violence. Nope. But there is more to this story than a school yard assault. That is why it is in the news. </p>

<p>And you ask if my son were beat up…well, I have daughters, but there is no difference…yes, I would want someone who assaulted my kid to be dealt with by the law, but in a fair way…as a juvenile…not as attempted murder (if similar to the situation I have read about this assault) and to know that similar types of assaults no matter the perpetrators or victims, were handled fairly, equally, and justly. </p>

<p>On a MUCH MUCH more minor scale, I have been a teacher who has had to give out consequences. If I gave some kid a way harsher consequence cause I didn’t like “him” or “his people” than I gave to another student who I happened to admire who did a similar act, that would be inappropriate and I would expect parents to be knocking down my door.</p>

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<p>"Texas is not necessarily true in NYC, or any other place in this world. I think things through a little better now because of your pov! "</p>

<p>Thank you so much! This is why I like opinions as well as facts. Facts I can find on my own, but opinions and different life experience I can’t get unless someone takes the time to share. Which is why the thread yesterday irked me. I find myself here for the “conversation” more than anything and I would hate it if that left and all we had were recitations and links of facts.</p>

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<p>But…razor. I don’t know if what you describe is truly the general public’s perception. I know that’s what people like Bill O’Reilly TELL me the general public is saying. But I look at the editorial page of the Houston Chronicle and I listen to public reaction on my local news…and I don’t see everyone buying the Jesse line that these kids are civil rights heroes. </p>

<p>Even on my daughter’s campus, the ‘Free the Jena 6’ groups do not wield the influence you describe. They are met with overwhelming resistance from those who ask ‘WHY free the Jena 6?’ </p>

<p>Perception is a tricky thing.</p>

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<p>lol…zooser…agree completely. I’m here for conversation AND to work my brain a little. Keeps the senility at bay… ;)</p>

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<p>The issue of Liberians and Americans is best left for another thread, but suffice to say that the shared history between the indigenous people of what is now Liberia and the African-Americans that “colonized” the county has not be completely harmonious.</p>

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<p>“don’t see anyone on this thread saying to “free” those who assaulted someone else but I do see many who feel that the charges were over and beyond, that it should be handled in juvie court, and that appropriate consquences for an assault are meted out…BUT only if those who perpetrated assaults against the Black youth in that town are handled equally and only if a jury is a jury of their peers (it was an all White jury) and only if the school and legal system deals with the racist acts that initiated a lot of this situation…that of the nooses. Using the words “free the Jena 6” out of context sounds nice, but I don’t think that is truly the issue. I don’t see anyone condoning assaults. I do see that the school administrators and legal system failed the students who were being persecuted. They should not have taken it into their own hands through physical violence. Nope. But there is more to this story than a school yard assault. That is why it is in the news.”</p>

<p>I’m not an attorney, but from what I have gathered over the years, in certain jurisdictions, after a certain number of convictions, then someone who is over a certain age (14 or 16 years old depending where it is) get charged as an adult. Also, it seems as if certain offenses get charged as an adult, almost regardless of age. Mr. Bell has a significant record for a 17 year old, and I don’t think that after a while age is the main criteria, anyhow.</p>

<p>Hopefully, with this amount of publicity, Mr. Bell will get the help he needs to start turning his life around. I do wonder if many football palyers with even his juvie record get scholarship offers. What are the NCAA rules governing this?</p>

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<p>“The issue of Liberians and Americans is best left for another thread, but suffice to say that the shared history between the indigenous people of what is now Liberia and the African-Americans that “colonized” the county has not be completely harmonious.”</p>

<p>I think much of the conflict between recent African immigrants and the longterm African-Americans is the same old song in the urban black culture: when a group is succeeding at a faster rate, esp when this includes school success, then the urban ghetto culture kicks in. Also there are alot of turf wars due to drug sales in the cities, whether a group is involved or not, just walking down a street can be trouble. </p>

<p>I have worked with a lot of African immigrants and they get very upset with having to live and go to school in this kind of environment, but often it is where they land when they first move here. They don’t land in the posh areas of Westchester or Newton or wherever rich people live now!</p>

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<p>collegialmom…you picked up on only ONE of the reasons this has made the news…being tried as an adult…but this was not the only thing that was not on the up and up in this entire situation. However, the fact is, it IS going to juvie court and the governor seemed to want that as did others. It wasn’t just which court it was in…he was charged with attempted murder…others who assaulted a Black person in this same racially charged town/situation, didn’t get charged in this way for an assault, or pulling a weopen. Further, the jury was all White in a racially charged case. That alone is outrageous. So, it wasn’t JUST that it was in adult court. Also based on what I have read, this boy, even with previous charges on his record WAS being recruited to play football at colleges and in fact, his own high school had him out on the field all season even with this record that you say was so bad that he deserved attempted murder charges in an adult court on this incident. Seems like the school wanted to use him on the field…through all the other charges he has had in the past. But this charge conveniently came after the season. There are articles about that little fact.</p>

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<p>Sooz, why spend so much time responding to this?</p>

<p>It is clear that collegialmom and some others here are solely fixated on Bell and his friends alone. They do not care at all about the proximate causes and circumstances that contributed to what happened, nor the blatent abuses of authority that took place. They feel his prior convictions preclude any rights he might otherwise have to be treated equitably under the law. The only injustice that took place as far as they are concerned is that A & J showed up. I guess it is just easier to think that this was only about a few rogues who deserve to be punished. So try as you might Sooz, I doubt you will get them to address anything else. Ironically, their ability to simply ignore the role of every other factor involved is a demonstration of the kind of thinking that actually allows a community like Jena to proliferate. It is the kind of thinking that almost ensures that these unfortunate events will likely to be repeated in the future. As someone here has already said – fingers stuck in the ears while whistling Dixie…</p>

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<p>“My point was…anyone who finds themselves in desperate circumstances may take desperate action.”</p>

<p>I just don’t see how this applies to the beating by six boys of a single boy for “running his mouth.” I mean, if they had beaten one of the boys who put up the noose, or one of the white people involved in one of the other incidents, or even the DA, I could see this, but as far as I know, the only thing the victim in this case did (which he denies, I believe), is that he made offensive remarks. What, exactly, was the desperation that led to this beating?</p>

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<p>FLVADAD…I truly get your point. I can tell I certainly won’t change their minds. And I also agree that the scary thing is that their kind of thinking is exactly what contributes to the situation like the one in Jena. </p>

<p>On the other hand, the way to affect change, is to advocate for change and to speak out. That’s part of the American way. We can accept or we can try to make a difference. I realize it may be falling on deaf ears or simply those who are not really looking at the entire picture and only see it as an assault/crime. You are right that this kind of thinking contributes to the proliferation of the kind of racism and injustice in places like Jena that many of us find to be shocking. But change can’t happen if we let it be or stay quiet about it either. I realize with some on this thread, it is a losing battle, but it is a challenge worth fighting for.</p>

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<p>Well said Sooz, and point well taken. Thanks.</p>

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<p>I doubt that many have you have devoted as many years as I have to helping disenfranchised groups in various parts of this country. Having said that, I do not think that these young men are poster children for the civil rights or any movement. I totally understand that you think the charges are unfair. </p>

<p>However, the way to right the wrongs in the black community go far beyond what is happening in this case. I fail to see how those of you living in picturesque NE towns and wealthy suburbs can really effect change, as I suspect the extent of your involvement with troubled disenfranchised African-American youth extends to making comments on a middle class message board, and maybe donating to moveon.org or whomever organizes the current “Free the Jena Six” movement. (Excluding the person whose husband is a longtime public defender.)</p>

<p>just because some of us do not agree and parrot your words does not mean that we don’t know what you are saying and acknowledge them, it just means that we don’t view this the exact same way.</p>

<p>I think honestly that I would do better on a message board that is frequented by people who are more in the trenches, as I am, of minority life in America. Do you know of any? (And one that is not just composed of knee-jerk responses to what one reads in the NYTimes op-eds.) I honestly would appreciate any suggestions. </p>

<p>I found the same kind of knee-jerk responses on CC when the Duke case first emerged, and would like to communicate with people with more experience in actually living and working in minority cultures.</p>

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<p>Collegialmom, I’m sorry but you have actually shown very little comprehension of what I may think about this case because you have been posting like a one note musician from the first. Nor have you acknowledged much of anything that anyone has said. For the same reason, I also don’t know what else you think, and thus, conclude that perhaps you have no other perspective beyond what you’ve repeatedly offered despite the various attempts to draw you out from your corner. It’s always Groundhog Day with you. </p>

<p>By no means do I want you to parrot my words; your own words will do just fine. I’d just like to see you use a few of them to address some of the other aspects of the case that others have been enumerating and questioning about. </p>

<p>As far as your work with the disenfranchised, the same thing applies. If you think you have some unique or special insight from your work experience, share it. I for one would be interested. There’s no need to be overly presumptuous or condescending about whether or not anyone else here has been “in the trenches.” You might find that some of us know more than you think if you would stop being so obtuse yourself. Try me.</p>

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<p>One does not need to be in the “trenches” collegialmom, to have an opinion about racism or about the justice system. If you want to put in a dig about someone in a picturesque NE town, you must have meant me…yep, I live in a gorgeous rural town in Vermont full of tourists today due to leaf peeping season. You work with the disenfranchised? That’s great. There are few people of color where I live. We do have rural poor, however. </p>

<p>I am not donating to anything to do with the Jena 6. I have read news accounts and this is a message board and I have an opinion. I don’t have to be actively working on these issues in my work to have an opinion. The public at large can have an opinion when it sees racism or observes legal injustices. </p>

<p>Sorry I don’t live and work with minorities in my daily life. But as an American, I have an opinion. As someone from a culture that suffered in the Holocaust due to intolerance, racial cleansing, attempts at annihilation, I also have an opinion. I hope it is OK with you if people like myself care or have an opinion on this subject even if we live in a rural White community. I can tell you one thing about MY community…there is NO way such an incident would ever be handled as it was in Jena.</p>

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<p>“As far as your work with the disenfranchised, the same thing applies. If you think you have some unique or special insight from your work experience, share it. I for one would be interested. There’s no need to be overly presumptuous or condescending about whether or not anyone else here has been “in the trenches.” You might find that some of us know more than you think if you would stop being so obtuse yourself. Try me.”</p>

<p>OK, go for it. Tell me what you think of black urban culture where you live, how you and others combat racism daily, what your contribution to this struggle is, and how you think that people living in wealthy areas can directly fight racism in rural Louisiana? Educate me. </p>

<p>And enjoy the autumn leaves! It must be beautiful in rural Vermont! We have leaves in the cities too. But no tourists…we peep for guns here, not trees. I don’t think your tourists would like the drive-by shootings, or those nasty ambulances coming to take the victims away (they have to wait for the police to come to the scene first and secure it, so the delay is a bit of a drag for the injured but gives the perps time to get away…)</p>

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<p>Wow collegialmom - you really do have a narrow view and apparently contempt for anyone or anything outside that narrow view. Perhaps a trip outside those self inflicted boundaries is in order for proper perspective?</p>

<p>I am very interested in how you have come to have these views…apparently you’d like us to infer you live and work in a crime-ridden area of an inner city with disenfranchised minorities. Yet you have no ability to see that flagrant abuse of power by a white DA against a black youth in Jena is NOT a step forward in race relations in our country. Interesting. How can this be? </p>

<p>I’d love to know more about what you actually do to help ‘disenfranchised groups’, so I can better understand this path to your pov. I’m sorry…but in my decade as an auditor of federally funded youth authorities and community action agencies, I HAVE gone to work every day checking for new bullet holes in my office walls. Experiencing the trenches is no reason to think as you do.</p>

<p>(Btw…you’ve seen fit to be a member of this community since August of 2005…we must not be all THAT bad. :wink: )</p>

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<p>collegialmom, of course there is more crime in a city than here in rural Vermont. Again, it does not mean I don’t care or not have an opinion about racism or the justice system in other areas of our country. </p>

<p>While crime is much more rare here than in a city and one thing I surely like better about it (though my kids each live in a city, one in NYC and one in Providence), it is not like we are immune to all crime, but just its frequency. </p>

<p>I’ll tell you a story of crime (but not about racism) that did touch me. When, my kids were tots, my parents came to visit from out of state and we were going out for the night and hired a babysitter whom we know, a lovely young woman at the time who was married but with no children. She didn’t show up, which seemed rather unusual as she is very responsible. She could not be reached and we didn’t know what happened. We learned the next day what happened when her husband called from her bedside at the hospital. The night before she was to babysit, she had gone out to a local establishment with some of her women friends, not her husband. She then went to drive home. Her tires had been purposely slashed by a man who had seen her at this establishment and so he then followed her car which obviously had to pull over due to the flat tire on our dark rural roads. He then took her to a remote area and raped and battered and beat her to kill her and left her for dead in a remote hiking area one town south (that is really wilderness) where he hoped she would not be found by anyone. The next morning, still alive but her head bashed and much more, she attempted to walk on the trail (she happened to have a job leading hiking tours in Vermont and is in good shape normally) and ran into hikers who called for help. She survived the brutal attack and physically recovered. This kind of brutal rape, kidnapping and attempted murder was horrific and I am sure has forever affected her life. But she has been a HUGE HUGE HUGE advocate now and her life’s work is for battered woman and victim’s rights. She is making a difference in her life for others through the jobs she now holds. I believe she was instrumental in getting a Victim’s Compensation program set up in our state as well as a Victim Bill of Rights. She is a hero to many and has effected change. Our community has supported victims’ rights. I will quote her: “When Americans are faced with unspeakable acts of trauma and tragedy, they rise up in unison to confront them.” Even here in rural Vermont ,there is crime and there are those who fight for the rights of victims. And I can sit here in my little village and have a voice. I’m an American and that’s what I do. It doesn’t matter if I live in Louisiana in this situation or if I live in “the trenches”.</p>

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<p>"I’d love to know more about what you actually do to help ‘disenfranchised groups’, so I can better understand this path to your pov. I’m sorry…but in my decade as an auditor of federally funded youth authorities and community action agencies, I HAVE gone to work every day checking for new bullet holes in my office walls. Experiencing the trenches is no reason to think as you do.</p>

<p>I’d love to know more about what you actually do to help ‘disenfranchised groups’, so I can better understand this path to your pov. I’m sorry…but in my decade as an auditor of federally funded youth authorities and community action agencies, I HAVE gone to work every day checking for new bullet holes in my office walls. Experiencing the trenches is no reason to think as you do."</p>

<p>I am not in poverty. I work with people who are. </p>

<p>I acknowledge the viewpoint here. I hope that there will be more understanding and less resentment between all ethnic groups and races. I just think that many posters on CC have a very narrow viewpoint of black culture and urban issues due to their own lack of experience. I saw this in the Duke case, and now here. </p>

<p>I am not such as active participant here, only on a few issues. Since I am being referred to with such incredible disdain, more so than probably total in any other aspects of my entire life, I must either be representing a real minority opinion for this forum, or not know how to post well. (Granted I never go on the “hugs threads.”)</p>

<p>So I will concede to you that I am not someone who fits in here, and so I will bid adieu to College Confidential.</p>

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<p>collegialmom - I don’t fit the stereotype you indicate, either. You are making assumptions based on your experience, not everyone’s on this board. This board is contributed to by posters throughout our country, some urban, some suburban, some rural, some wealthy, some middle class, and some at poverty level. I, myself, live in the Midwest, in a middle-class suburb which has the distinction of having the most extreme economic demographics in our state. We have gated communities and we have lots of illegal immigrants - a big discrepancy in a town of 30,000. </p>

<p>However, I grew up in the south, and will tell you that my experience has been that blacks were almost always more likely the victims of racism, than the illegal hispanic population was. The village I live in now has some serious problems with hispanic gangs, but I’ve heard no complaints from the hispanic community of racial profiling. When a crime is committed, it is handled fairly. I found it interesting that a high school in a nearby suburb was forced to deal with a similar (with some differences) situation as Jena this week, and this is how it was handled: </p>

<p>**"Racially charged comments about blacks by a white teenager at Warren Township High School’s upperclassmen campus resulted in his arrest, police said, because he alarmed two female students.</p>

<p>Part of Curtis Hiett’s behavior included driving to the Almond Road building this week with a noose hanging from his rear-view mirror and a Confederate flag inside his car, Gurnee Deputy Police Chief Kevin Woodside said. He was unable to describe the size of the noose.</p>

<p>Woodside said it was the periodic remarks about blacks in general made by Hiett – not the vehicle’s contents – that resulted in a misdemeanor disorderly conduct charge Thursday. </p>

<p>“This is particularly outrageous because of the school environment,” he said.</p>

<p>Black students made up roughly 10 percent of the school’s 4,063 enrollment, according to the most recent statistics available in the 2006 Illinois State Report Card. </p>

<p>Police said Hiett, 17, of 979 Charles Ave., Gurnee, was arrested at his home. He’s slated to appear in Lake County court Oct. 23.</p>

<p>Carolyn Waller, a Warren Township High School District 121 spokeswoman, said classes for juniors and seniors were held without disruption at the Almond building Friday. She said school officials couldn’t comment on possible disciplinary measures against Hiett.</p>

<p>“I can say he is with his parents,” Waller said.</p>

<p>Hiett, whose parents could not be reached for comment, is accused of behaving inappropriately and alarming two girls at school since the academic year began. He was arrested after District 121 officials contacted police Thursday.</p>

<p>Democratic state Rep. Eddie Washington of Waukegan said he was contacted for assistance this week by three Latino and black Warren students who were troubled by Hiett. Washington said the teenagers went to him because they didn’t believe District 121 administrators were taking seriously their concerns.</p>

<p>But Washington said he didn’t need to get involved because Warren officials contacted Gurnee police.</p>

<p>Adults must stay on top of what students are saying and their behavior, Washington said. It’s preferable for educators to summon police about a student who is alarming others than to look the other way, he added.</p>

<p>“I’d rather be safe than sorry,” he said.** <a href=“Story a good lesson about humanity”>Story a good lesson about humanity;

<p>I have to wonder if one of the differences here in how the Gurnee case was handled was that those two white girl knew better than to allow a student with this behavior and attitude (not just toward blacks, but the girls, too), and they felt safe that if they reported it, something would happen… and it did. Now it still needs to go to court, and the school district needs to dole out its consequences, but my suspicion is that all who felt victimized will observe justice being doled out fairly, and there won’t be increased tensions between whites and blacks over this incident</p>