<p>Top 10 of 10 from Class of 2005 at my Ds HS are young ladies. Eleven is also female. Number 12 is a brilliant young gentleman we know very well. Hmmmm. Next year the males should dominate.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>…and to be better at theoretical math and engineering</p>
<p><em>ducks</em></p>
<p>I noticed this last week when our county newspaper put out a special section listing the county “scholars” (the top students nominated by each high school, including continuation high schools, in our county). Each student had a nice photograph and a bio that listed such things as gpas, activities, community service and college plans. After reading through the section and being extremely impressed by all these wonderful students (my S is not one of them, though he’s wonderful in his own way), I noticed that the photos seemed girl-heavy. So I decided to count. The difference in gender was overwhelming: 56 girls, 23 boys. More than two to one. These are the valedictorians. Maybe they just do school better than most boys.</p>
<p>On a side note, at my son’s public high school, there is a boy and girl valedictorian and the top 5% of the class is pretty evenly distributed along gender lines. I think this may be because his school (magnet) has a technology focus and no athletics.</p>
<p>Before we go too anecdotal, S’s graduating top ten was evenly split, but the top four were guys.</p>
<p>I think boys are in real trouble. And, it probably doesn’t help that pretty much the sole focus of educators has been helping girls catch up in science and math, with no attention to how boys are doing in, say, English and history.</p>
<p>We have an issue locally with some new way they are teaching math. The parents in those districts are in a fit about it. Here is a link to the story:
<a href=“http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050510/NEWS01/505100331&SearchID=73207856050227[/url]”>http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050510/NEWS01/505100331&SearchID=73207856050227</a></p>
<p>What’s odd is I looked at it (they had some examples in the newspaper) and I thought to myself - they have CLEARLY changed how they teach math to cater more to how girls learn - lots of explanations, verbal approaches, even doing the arithmetic left to right just like reading! Yikes. Our poor boys.</p>
<p>momof2inca makes a point about her son’s magnet school that may benefit from some expansion. The articles I cited earlier mention a phenomenon that still exists - there are still numerous reasonably well-paying careers for men that don’t require college degrees; relatively few women enter these, with exceptions during the two World Wars. </p>
<p>Historically, the effect (or the choice women made as a result) of the gender equity movement that started in the 60’s and continues to this day has been that women have in numbers disproportionate to men chosen professional and skilled career areas that require college degrees. </p>
<p>In other words, when many legal and social barriers to entering careers(any career) dropped in the latter half of the last century, women chose to go to college and enter fields requiring college prep, rather than learn welding, mining, steelworking, etc. and other trades that generally did not require college, in the proportion that men continued to enter those trades. </p>
<p>Kinda gets us back to an earlier post by citygirlsmom.</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Bill</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Is that a joke?</p>
<p>Another thing to think about, is for many years, girls, including the large immigrant population, was told, go to school if you must, but get married. The average marrying age now is something like 25, years older than before. </p>
<p>Now, the parents of young girls encourage education, starting very young. Getting married isn’t the goal after highschool for a larger percentage of the population.</p>
<p>There are many different causes for the shift - its not just computers and games, its not just baby boomers, its not just money, its not just different maturity levels, its not just the changes in society, its not just the educational styles and studies, its not daughters to work day (which I think making a cause is a crock- boys saw men in power and influence for years and years and years- it was all around them. So once a year, they didn’t get to do something their sisters did- that one day didn’t suddenly make boys give up)</p>
<p>It gained momentum after WWII Many women tasted control, power, independence, knowledge. In the 50s, it reverted back a little to wives at home, but the interest was still there. Those women had daughters, who went to school in the 60s, college, coeds, civil rights movements, equal rights, there was a shift.</p>
<p>Then those girls, me included, had daughters. The shift continues. People don’t jump into marriage. We see other women doing fantastic things. We see female professors, we see Senators, Doctors, Firemen, Carpentors.</p>
<p>I would like to see what the real numbers are for college enrollment, not just percentages. Is there a difference between coasts, a difference between north and south? Length of time in school? graduation numbers?</p>
<p>Stats can show just a part of what we need to see, look at that stupid list in Newsweek Magazine…</p>
<p>A slight aside, but just to add another dimension to the discussion:
And some of those girls, like me, had only sons. And, having proceeded through life just ignoring the people who might have thought there were things I could not or should not do because I was a girl, and succeeding just fine anyway, I wanted bring my <em>sons</em> to work with me, so they could see competent women in all kinds of work roles and grow up with the same attitude I had. Although I realize many women were aghast at the change, I am one woman who was very happy to see the shift to “Take Our <em>Children</em> to Work Day”. Children of both genders need to see the normalcy of women in the workplace, and then it may eventually become a non-issue.</p>
<p>My mother - whose parents could only afford to send her to secretarial school during the depression and then who married and lived with a brilliant and not always so wonderful alcohalic- used to say to me when I was young “Never be in my position. Make sure you can get educated; that you can take care of yourself and your children if you have to. Keep you options open.”
I suspect alot of women from my generation heard similar suggestions and were motivated to heed that advice.</p>
<p>Now the tables have turned and thirty years later I’m telling my sons - “If you want an educated woman who can help earn money to support the family, you’d better learn how to cook and do laundry, too. They’re nbot doing Ph.D.s or becoming doctors to be your maid!”</p>
<p>Big topic. Here’s my stream of consciousness post on a complicated subject. The maturity gap between high school boys and girls is widening. Girls, who as a whole have the upper edge at this age physically and emotionally, are encouraged by their post-feminist parents to strive and achieve, to go after what they want. I see more high school girls than guys with higher levels of sophistication, attitude, grooming, assertiveness, time management/planning skills, and direction. Among girls, poise is more valued, effort of any kind is more recognized, and there seems to be more expression of appreciation. I see girls planning weekend activities in advance, networking with other girls, and moving in groups. It is my impression that when a girl starts to derail, she has a greater chance of getting back on track when the derailment triggers the antennae of her closer friends. The group is more likely to notice.</p>
<p>In contrast, I see boys who withdraw from their families, who operate more independently or in pairs or trios on weekends, who tolerate last minute changes in plan or weekend nights with no advance plans at all, just the night unscrolling in real time. They live in a world where there seems to be more interest in electronics, and who live in a world in which videogame prowess and knowledge of machinery seems to be more valued. Communication tools such as IM and cell phones reinforce spur of the moment social planning rather than advance planning. Coolness and detachment are valued, problems are more likely to be shrugged off, and heckling one’s friends is part of the communication style. Isolation and loneliness, especially among the freshmen and sophomore guys, are common. Their female counterparts have more options socially, as they can date up, but younger high school boys are at the bottom of the pecking order. Within a matter of weeks, a high school boy can start to derail: grades slip, fall behind in Spanish, get hooked on Counterstrike, spend more time playing Counterstrike in your room, isolation increases, the other boys will not notice, and now the quarter is finished. If not caught right away and redirected, when the semester is done, one’s BRWK can feel diminished both academically and socially, suffering from a lack of momentum that will be very difficult to restore. This is in a matter of weeks.</p>
<p>The huge rise of organized sports and scheduled activities is a factor indeveloping initiative for both girls and boys, as family routines and meals start to revolve around time-consuming sports and activity schedules (which are usually set up by adults). The schedule is king. The busy student gets in a routine of school, sport, activity, meal, homework, sleep, leaving little usable time to actively manage. Without much practice in taking the initiative to manage blocks of time, such as calling friends to see a movie and putting the plan in motion, the kids can start to use their non-scheduled time more passively. This starts at a young age and as the athlete develops, and spends more time practicing, other individual and possibly time-consuming creative pursuits (i.e. hobbies) gradually fall by the wayside. Something’s got to give. Certainly there are many benefits to being involved in activities and sports, but family life can be seriously impacted, especially if there are several siblings. Many families seek to find the right balance for them, are willing to make this trade-off. In some families the impact is very gradual as the years go by, and the investment becomes so great that no one is willing to backtrack. </p>
<p>At this point let me say that I understand that serious athletes develop superior time management skills. I’m talking more about the less-driven mid-range athlete here, someone who perhaps enjoys his/her sport but is not driven to condition, practice, and compete at the level of the more elite athete.</p>
<p>Part two re: organized sports and activities, is that many are organized by grade-level. In some sports, kids have less chance to interact and be inspired by with other kids who are 1,2,4, or more years older. When there is a mixx of ages, that’s a real plus.</p>
<p>Other factors for lost boys include a culture of instant gratification (cell phones, food available everywhere and all the time, entertainment available on TV or screens). Plus, the influence of music and music video imagery which often depicts celebrity success achieved with seemingly little effort.</p>
<p>The boys are confused. They are losing sight of what it is to act their age. They are losing sight of themselves. They need their parents or other caring adults to help them. Moms especially. You have to go for it. If you see your kid slipping, jump in there with your annoying mom questions. Keep doing it. Don’t allow yourself to be shrugged off with an easy answer intended to end the conversation.</p>
<p>Of the nine teenaged boys in my son’s generation of extended family, he is one of only three who have not been derailed by academic downslide, behavioral interventions, academic failure, school reassignment, legal trouble, or substance/alcohol abuse. I have been giving this a lot of thought. My son did have a bad quarter but I was paying attention and thankfully we were able to get him back on track.</p>
<p>Looking on the bright side, I have seen how responsive boys can be to leadership and direction, especially when it is offered by peers. Older athletes and team captains can be enormously influential on the younger players. My son was on the receiving end of this dynamic and this year as a varsity captain was most definitely on the giving end, as evidenced by the comments we have received from other parents. Effort on the field is revered in a way that academic effort is not. I’ll take the positive influence from whatever direction it comes, and all the better if there are overlapping positive influences from several directions at once.</p>
<p>In my son’s school I don’t have any figures on GPA, but the overwhelming majority of NM semifinalists (94%) and commended students (77%) this year are male. There are a bunch of them.</p>
<p>Go moms!</p>
<p>Speckledegg: That was pretty darned good stream-of-consciousness.</p>
<p>Some great insights spreckled egg…re: “Go Moms!” reminds me of a research study I conducted a few years back which yielded some interesting results - that fathers had a greater impact on their daughters in their teen years than mothers; and that daughters who excelled professionally generally had very close, supportive relationships with their Dads.
Is the reverse true? In the teen years, is the mother’s role more important in her son’s development than the fathers? Certainly many successful males, especially from minorities, credit their mothers and grandmothers with keeping them on track, on the “straight and narrow”, etc. (I also suspect that many of these boys didn’t have male role models around either.) But just as Dads with their more “Hang tough - stop fretting and just go for it” attitudes can help girls shoot for their goals, a Mom’s more verbal and physical nurturing and time management skills might be just the ticket for the sons.</p>
<p>Another issue: communication and the male teen tendency to withdraw.
Where we live, aside from drinking and hook-up parties, there is not much for 13, 14, and 15 year old teens to do except go to the “mall” (ugh.) Otherwise, they tend to play hermit at home. Because of this, several families in our town have gotten together and take turns every three weeks or so helping our kids plan something that can involve their other friends - a birthday gathering; a beach bonfire; ice skating; rock climbing, going to a play, etc…this has worked out quite well.</p>
<p>Lastly - communicating and how boys close off. I learned early on that my kids - and many others I’ve noticed - talk more easily if the focus is off them - that is, they tend to clam up when we sit across from them resolutely staring into their eyes. When my kids were little, they’d open up more easily about something that upset them at night in bed after prayers when the room was dark. Or when we share tasks together - out doing yard work or eating crabs (where you sit around and pound and break open shells and just shhot the breeze…) Now, with my 15 year old - I see it happening again and it wasn’;t even intentional…so I don’t walk alone at night, he’s taken to walking with me. (and since it’s at night none of his friends can see that he’s doing something so dumb as walking with his mom…!) After a few weeks, I began to realize he looks forward to our walks and not only because he doesn’t have to share my attention with his other siblings but also I think because we talk - and we talk because there’s no pressure on him to talk, so he does…as we walk, information about what happened to him during the day or how he’s feeling about something just starts to flow out of him. It’s cathartic…</p>
<p>Speckledegg -
I know what you mean about annoying mom questions - but they could be annoying dad questions. </p>
<p>Also, activities such as drama, like athletics, can be major time sink that require a bit of management, at least with some kids. Like it or not, only two days per day (at least in my time zone) don’t have 24 hours.</p>
<p>I too have read dozens of studies noting the huge differences in college enrollment by gender, (60-40 is the norm). I believe law schools and soon medical schools are getting close to tilting in the direction of female students. NHS, valed./salut., top scholastic prizes—all leaning heavily toward girls. Boys= more dropouts, more in behavioral problem classes, fewer in Honors/AP clases. </p>
<p>At our S’s graduation I noted there were about 10 academic scholarships specifically offered to girls but none for boys. These are left over from a time when girls needed the extra incentives to pursue college. I have recently noted our HS stats for sports and other ECS and even they are skewed toward heavier girl involvement. I have no idea what has happened in only one generation. That bit about girls getting inferior attention was from a study about ten years ago. Who would have guessed it would change so dramatically in just a little over a decade?</p>
<p>I know that at my S’s college Pomona the split is 51/49, female to male while many schools are 60/40. Some schools seem to do a better job with the balancing , possibly due to the number of good applicants they have to choose from. It does give male applicants a huge advantage</p>
<p>One point brought up by someone was very good. Dads are much more involved in Daughters lives, and that relationship is very important during the teen years.</p>
<p>That has been a cosmic changes since the 50s.</p>
<p>Great thread everyone</p>
<p>There is a good book called “Real Boys” that gave me a lot of insight into my young sons. To over-distill the thesis: girls get more cultural attention than boys in terms of what it means to be a girl/woman. Boys are basically left with the goal (in order to be masculine) of “not being like girls.”</p>
<p>Thus when girls corner the market in academics in 7,th,8th, 9th grades, maybe many boys feel that somehow it isn’t quite macho to excel in school?</p>
<p>Just a sidebar…</p>
<p>I was very frustrated this summer as I wanted to find a local engineering camp for my S to attend (we live in a large metropolitan area with more than one university). There were none. There were camps for both genders of children up to age 13 or so, but after that all the engineering camps are for girls only.</p>
<p>Someone told me that there are likely grants available for setting up science & technology courses specifically for girls, and that’s why these are so much more prevalent.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, as a parent of a S who would be capable of studying science or engineering, I sure would like the opportunity to expose him to these things. We homeschool our children, so we have to go searching for some of these things rather than having them available in a school.</p>
<p>Ah, well…I think he probably isn’t the “engineering type” anyway. He isn’t detail oriented at all.</p>
<p>All the messages in this thread have been fascinating! I was encouraged by the poster who works in academia and said that they are looking closely at this issue. I wonder though, if it will ever be politically correct to start doing things specifically to encourage more boys towards college.</p>
<p>About statistics…I would like to know what percentage of boys graduating from high school attend college now, as opposed to 20 years ago. Ditto for the girls. As one poster said, it would be good to understand whether the situation is that the same percentages of boys are going to college as always have, but the percentage of girls has shot up, or whether boys have actually dropped as well as girls increasing.</p>
<p>It is also interesting to note that the boys that are smart, kind, caring, nice, and that are interested in other things besides sports are either called gay, nerd, or geeks. I have always taught my boys to be respectful, do their best, be kind, be caring, to do things that they like (art, music, drama, etc.), and just follow the golden rule, do unto others…Because of this they are called all of the above names. They handle it very well, have a lot of friends, but it is still hard on them. They may have it easier because they are very nice looking which I’m sure helps, but my heart breaks for the boys that don’t have good parents, aren’t necessarily attractive, and have no support at all.</p>