<p>I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine. She has a daughter who is a senior and a son who is a freshman. I have 3 sons. As we talked she stated that she never knew how different it was for boys and girls at our local high school. I asked her what she meant. She said that ever since her very bright daughter walked in the door, she had been encouraged to join mentorship programs, get involved in computer club, been invited to participate in Women in Engineering programs, etc. Her son, who is equally bright, has not been approached at all. She asked if that was true for my sons. I have to say my kids were not really pursued to participate in anything. And my #1 and #3 are at the top of the class, so it isn’t that they are not appropriate for various academic things. (I must ammend that. Youngest one has been asked to be on math team and was nominated for Boys State, but then that is a program specifically for boys.)</p>
<p>I think that part of the problem is that there are all these mentoring programs for girls to encourage them to “reach for the stars” but nothing equivalent for boys. The programs I do see for boys are often for the boys who are on the verge of dropping or flunking out. But no one has offered much support for my academically bright boys. This doesn’t bother me at all because they have been successful nonetheless and it never would have occured to me to think about it if it hadn’t been for my friend’s experience with her daughter.</p>
<p>Mominsearch - the name calling is equally bad for the girls who don’t comply to the common denominator. Our D who is beautiful, built, smart, and has a good head on her shoulders was repeatedly called “a loser” and “a lesbian” because she refused to join the other sports jocks at parties and hook-up. It took alot of talking on our part to help her weather the intense peer pressure and not completely feel up with bitterness or defensiveness…(One of her best lines to boys who called her a lesbian was "Well, if my choice is between you and any woman on earth then yeah, definately, I’m gay…)</p>
<p>Shennie: About the boys being not pursued or as nurtured as the girls in HS (at least programmatically…) In some ways that’s true - however, in other ways like with the drama club - the teachers are always banging pots trying to attract boys to participate…and the boys always got the best parts (thanks to male playwrites) but were the last to learn their lines and often skipped rehearsals, etc. This always infuriated the girls. (The boys did, however, always manage to pull it off on opening night much to everyone’s relief…)</p>
<p>One of the most compelling visions I witness that illustrates this lack of support for boys is when I picking up my S from soccer practice some nights. There in the cold dark – sitting on a bench by the highway – are usually seven or eight football players - usually minority students who live in public housing – waiting for the always late bus to take them home from pratice. By the time they get home, it will be past 8:30 - they haven’t eaten or showered. They still have two to three hours of homework to do before sleep and then the alarm that gets them up at 5:30 a.m. the next day to catch the bus back to school. How can these boys excell? I’m amazed they don’t flunk out. And talk about initiative…their stamina and commitment is pretty impressive. They don’t have any of the bells and whistles, the pats on the back, or the taxi service that many of their middle and upperclass male peers have.
I talked with the principalj ust the other day about this to see if we can get members of the Parents Booster club to set up a carpooling schedule to cart these boys home in a timely fashion…I think little supportive things like that can go a big way in keeping these boys on the right track.</p>
<p>Alot of my intelligent but lazy male friends complain about how no one cares about a “white male,” which is true in terms of scholarships etc. Most of them just don’t see a point in working for something they don’t care about, so they go join theatre or play video games instead of doing homework or studying; the girls join more honor societies and freak out about grades. I suppose it’s a different sort of prioritizing.</p>
<p>Final class rank- valedictorian is male (and does as little homework as possible, actually dropped Spanish V because it was work), the next at least 10 were girls (class of 630)</p>
<p>Speaking to the “white male” comment mentioned by KrazyKow - I can’t even tell you how many people, at the beginning of our college search, who said, “Oh, he’s a white male you’ll get no scholarships, etc”. I don’t know where that information came from, but if that is what people are thinking then maybe they are communicating that to their boys too.</p>
<p>At every school my son applied to he was accepted & if you total all the scholarships he was offered it had to be in the 250K+ range (he applied to 5 schools). If we had told him what others told us then he could have decided not to do as well because what would it matter anyway. However, we were very positive. You certainly don’t stop doing your best just because other people tell you something. We need to be careful about what we say.</p>
<p>Crash - My son’s drama coach will not let you miss any practice unless when you are trying out you tell her you can’t be there.</p>
<p>I also think it’s the same for kids who are late bloomers. The college/college admission games are for kids who are matured early, so it may not be male/female specific.
I think nature has it eventually things will even out. I know I was the more mature one, between me and my brother, eventhough he’s one year older. I went to 4-year college, he went to 2-year CC. Fast forward, 20+years, he is actually earning more money than I am, in the same company. May be it has something to do with luck, but I think he has since maturing more than I am now even, in term of thinking, etc…</p>
<p>I think that a huge part of this can be blamed on elementary schools. More and more, schools are leaning towards educations based on feelings and outcomes (Google “Outcome Based Education” and you’ll get an idea). Boys (and some girls like me ) just hate that. If the guys don’t get interested from the start in elementary school they won’t ever get interested without a teacher that will cater to their learning styles. I hated humanities classes throughout high school because they were all fluff based on feelings. Now the state is mandating that high school students fill more of their elective classes with humanities (thus leaving less room for advanced science/math classes), and I doubt that this will help the guys get excited about going to college.</p>
<p>Interesting thread. I can think of two things that contribute to the gap:</p>
<ol>
<li>Standards. In the past, there were very clear standards of what it meant to be a boy and what it meant to be a girl. There were very clear guidelines about activities boys are supposed to engage in, things taht girls are supposed to excel in, etc. These cultural standards, which denied many girls and women the opportunities they deserves, were eliminated, which gave girls and women greater freedom to follow their interests and reach higher.</li>
</ol>
<p>The effect on the boys however, was that there is no clear guideline for them anymore. There is no one to tell them how to distinguish themselves from the girls. As a previous poster noted, boys nowadays have no way to define themselves other than “we’re not like girls”. I believe this underlying issue makes many boys disengage themselves from activities which seem to be oriented towars girls-- particularly school-related activities.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The race to college. The race to finds a “hook” and develop one’s resume for college often begins in the early high school years, sometimes even in middle school. I beleive that for many reasons, girls have adapted better to the demands of this endless race of activities and exams and summer programs than boys, which makes them more likely to go to college.</p></li>
<li><p>Boys still have more occupational opportunities than girls. Many of the occupations which do not require a college degree are open exclusively to males (when was the last time you saw a female construction worker?). Women who want to get a decent job and support themselves <em>must</em> be college-educated-- men, however, have more options. Even without a college degree, a young man can still find a well-paying job, while a woman without a college degree has less of a chance.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>You know, after reading these posts, I am convinced that these “lost boys,” as the OP so aptly described them, cannot be solely blamed for the aforementioned shortcomings. I am convinced, instead, that society must accept a large portion of the onus. After all, one can hardly watch television without seeing an advertisement for the latest incarnation of Playbox or X-station or what-not. It is not our boys’ fault that they are constantly bombarded with the idea that they should, in order to be “cool” and “manly,” entertain themselves with violent, indeed, in many cases, gruesome and horrific, “games,” if one could stoop so low as to call them that.
I know that my S had <em>such</em> a difficult time shaking the WarCraft addiction. I certainly would go so far as to say that his inability to spend less than fifteen minutes a day, as I so often begged him, absorbed in this truely asinine nonsense, was a major contribution to his eventual rejection from Harvard, among several other Ivies. He finally wound up at Duke, and though I of course would not admit it to him, I am <em>so</em> disappointed. His father is too, I know.
However, many of you have brought up good points. Perhaps I should not have blamed S alone. Thank you for your insight.</p>
<p>You know, Malery, maybe you really are a parent with a kid whose WarCraft addiction caused him to disappoint you with an admission to Duke instead of Harvard. On the other hand, maybe you’re a bored kid who applied to BU and other schools, and left a posting trail that makes this post obvious hogwash. Cut the nonsense.</p>
<p>So is it societies fault a kid gets addicted to a video game…before college, did son play those games? Or was it a new addiction that hit during college?</p>
<p>Girls are surrounded by images on TV suggesting that they must spend hours a day straightening their hair, picking the perfect outfit, and applying makeup in order to be “cool.” I’m just cheap and lazy…</p>
<p>Wow. Driver - you’re good. I would neber have caught that one…</p>
<p>I do think our technolgies are terribly seductive - and like fast food, they can be addicting and not so good for us (kinda like too much CC, really)…it’s clear from all these interesting posts that there are a great many factors at play here…</p>
<p>< I know that my S had <em>such</em> a difficult time shaking the WarCraft addiction. I certainly would go so far as to say that his inability to spend less than fifteen minutes a day, as I so often begged him, absorbed in this truely asinine nonsense, was a major contribution to his eventual rejection from Harvard, among several other Ivies. He finally wound up at Duke, and though I of course would not admit it to him, I am <em>so</em> disappointed. His father is too, I know. >
Your son sure fared well for someone with an addiction. I can’t believe that you are disappointed that your son ended up at DUKE instead of an Ivy. Duke is just as competitive as several of the Ivies.</p>
<p>With video games, we often see kids spending too much time, so what ever possible “benefit” they may get from it is not balanced by what is not gained by social interactions, studying, time management, other pursuits-sports, volunteering, music, etc.</p>
<p>Of course, some kids can do it all, but from some of the posts here, many can’t.</p>
<p>There is a crisis among our boys and it is not just at the college level. Even more seriously, American males at adolescence are becoming an endangered species. They are killed, maimed, drop out, go to jail, get involved in drugs–you name it. Much more so than the girls. Am not playing down the problems that the girls have; but the numbers clearly show that the boys are the ones having a harder time of it. So in the arena of college admissions, it makes sense that there are fewer males in the running. Curiously, the exception to this situation is in the engineering, computer sciences fields. The tech schools have far more males applying than females. That too creates a run on males applying to LACs and other schools that are strong on liberal arts programs.</p>
<p>Are fewer males in the running, or just more females? I haven’t been able to get those stats. It could very well be true, but so far, I have jsut seen percentages.</p>
<p>Does anyone have the real numbers over the years? That would be very helpful.</p>
<p>For whatever reasons, there are few males applying to the liberal arts heavy colleges. Since most schools want to stay somewhat in the 50/50 range, the admissions scene is more favorable towards the males. I saw the actual numbers for Swarthmore, which is a top school and they really surprised me, how skewed this could be. You would expect this at schools that were traditionally female, but this is affecting any number of colleges.</p>
<p>Maize- my son says the same-“because he’s been indoctrinated by 10 years worth of female teachers telling him that!” </p>
<p>I am no psychologist,and everything in my post is a generalization so all you feminists don’t beat me up. I just realized from this thread that my son had only three male teachers in the first 8 years of schooling (out of 24 teachers) and a father (me) that was never home during the week. He did play video and magic card games and liked isolation. No matter how hard we tried to change that and encourage him to socialize ,he preferred being with just one friend or alone. Back in the 70’s I taught music and the girls were always (as a generalization) more studious,serious and disciplined than the boys. The boys never practiced and always wanted to take the easy way out. Female liberation was only beginning then and had not reached the masses in any major way. I think it is hormonal as later on in life (another generalization) men seem to be more motivated or deliberate than women. Anecdotal I admit ,but evidenced by the fact that I have noticed that most women tell a story by relaying all of the underlying facts as opposed to saying exactly what the person did or the main plot to the story…girls are more fact oriented IMHO and desire to know all aspects to a subject and boys appear to be more global in their approach or big picture? While I agree girls were subjected years ago to discrimination, once they were allowed to compete, their strong command of the facts helped them excel,along with discipline and the will to succeed. Let’s face it school is fact based regarding performance,testing, etc. </p>
<p>So there is my two cents it is hormonal and probabaly has little to do with the PC police.</p>
) just hate that. If the guys don’t get interested from the start in elementary school they won’t ever get interested without a teacher that will cater to their learning styles. I hated humanities classes throughout high school because they were all fluff based on feelings. Now the state is mandating that high school students fill more of their elective classes with humanities (thus leaving less room for advanced science/math classes), and I doubt that this will help the guys get excited about going to college.</p>