<p>Look in “help and rules” section for Vb code.</p>
<p>Then practice some…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>tenisghs - do you have any data to back up this statement:</p>
<p>“there has been a change (decrease) in the number of black/latino males who do apply to college due to socioeconomic and cultural factors…”</p>
<p>If so, I would love to have it if you do as we are developing a program at the local HS to assist disadvantged minorities boys and can always use statistics or articles for grant purposes.</p>
<p>This idea of boys being “slower to find their way” hits home - most parents of boys and girls quickly see that boys are gender-wired differently than girls; that girls are usually are more socially precocious, toilet train earlier, and mature faster physically. And I think this "late-blooming"ness of boys reflects across cultures…In Pacific Island cultures, young adult males often spend years carousing, drinking kava and homebrew, and having a swell unbridled time of it until they get married. Then their families and society in general expects them to get serious, work hard and provide for their families. And they usually do.</p>
<p>The danger with this “late blooming” tendency in western societies such as the US is that the pitfalls enroute to “blooming” (flunking, dropping out of school, drugs, crime, jail, car accidents) are disquieting, dangerous, permanent, or can negatively affect the rest of one’s life.</p>
<p>Crash,</p>
<p>Are you saying that it might be possible to re-wire the natural development of boys in oreder to avoid the ‘danger’ of such tendencies?</p>
<p>I strongly disagree on every level. In fact, this misguided notion, that boys would be better served if they behaved more like females, may be counterproductive and a contributor to poor statistics.</p>
<p>Keeping high testosterone boys on the rails is no easy task. That is the simple genetic truth. Finding ways to keep them on the rails, more or less, and allowing them to blow off testoserone without destroying themselves, that’s the challenge.</p>
<p>In my experience, the challenge is made easier by an all male, highly male, high school environment.</p>
<p>“. I used to be timid, insecure, unapproachable, and socially inept. Keeping a soft heart, I’ve since transformed into a more confident, assertive, and likeable individual. I could not have made it without all the bullies, miscreants, teasers, and other such people whom parents despise.”</p>
<p>I’m glad that things worked out for you, but at the same time, I am sorry that you had to go through so much pain to become more assertive.</p>
<p>It’s fortunate that you reacted the way that you did to bullying. Probably most shy people do not react that way. They become even shyer. They don’t blossom under that kind of painful pressure.</p>
<p>Some research has indicated that what can make the difference between shy kids who grow out of it and shy kids who don’t is how parents react. The shy kids who grow out of shyness tend to have parents who teach them social skills and gently, but firmly put the kids into increasingly more complex situations in which they have to relate to other people. </p>
<p>The kids who remain shy tend to have parents who do things like speak for the child or protect the child from having to socialize. It’s hard to develop social skills and confidence if your parents don’t give you the chance to learn and practice such skills.</p>
<p>Wow, Cheers - That was a bit of a jump from my statement of boys being built differently to my wanting to “re-wire” them…How did you extract that thinking from my comments? Come on… cool down! </p>
<p>I have two S who are active and funny and major late bloomers and I enjoy being around them very much and wouldn’t change them - or try to change them - for the world.</p>
<p>If someone could re-wire some of mine, I would be happy to have the job done. Can’t say I have not tried my best to change them, but to no avail. I just hope I have tempered some of their more dangerous traits to a point that they do not get into as much trouble and are not as much at risk in life. As upset as I have gotten with them, I do love them and want to have them in this world.</p>
<p>Gees, jamimom, I’m dying to meet this pack of boys of yours. They sound like something out of a movie…you know, Rebels Without a Cause or Lord of the Flies!</p>
<p>They were ALL here over the Memorial Day weekend, and things were hopping, I can tell you. Actually, my nephew has become a wonderfully responsible adult and having the older S ten hours away and on his own has helped my nerves. But I have one who is making up for that, I am afraid. Not proud of any of this, I will tell you. The nephew, I could understand, as I got him late and with issues. My own, however, are just as bad, and they have no excuses. I truly think that they are just very, very immature and need about 10 extra years on the developmental chart to get to the maturity level. The problem is keeping them afloat for that long. They are actually charming, handsome fellows to meet. It’s having to take the brunt of some of their foolishness that makes them true jerks. I don’t know if society is just less forgiving these days of male immaturity and their shanigans, or if every generation of moms, parents went through this ride with their sons. But as I have noted on this thread, males are statistically at risk at every stage of their developement, even before they are born. And it is frightening how much of the prison population, and other problem groups that they comprise. Not to lessen the importance of troubled females, but in sheer numbers, there seems to be a problem with the males in our society today.</p>
<p>Misread your use of the word ‘danger’. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t ascribe that adjective to that tendancy but I was not hot nor bothered, merely curious–which is why I phrased it as a question, followed by my point of view.</p>
<p>Nevermind.</p>
<p>To Jami, you don’t mean that or you would have rewired them with meds or lobotomies or something les problematic than putting them back on the rails…again…and again…and again. I know we agree about the plus side of all boy high s chools.</p>
<p>Ooooooh, you’re going to have a good laugh at their expense when they have rambunctious boys themselves.</p>
<p>You know, Cheers, I really don’t wish that on them or anyone. This has not just been painful for me, but for the rest of the family, and I think, for them too. That they do not think out the consequences of many of their actions, has affected them adversely as well. I make light of it on the forum often, but living it is really a different story. And some of their issues are life threatening not only to them but to others. Driving, for instance, among other things, and that is something that young males are statistically at risk in doing. The waste of their talents just boggles my mind, Cheers and is very painful to me. I can truly understand how some kids have a tough time finding interests in life and end up on the “dark side”, but when you see kids that can do so much positively dabbling that way, it is just beyond my comprehension.</p>
<p>I have a theory – and now that I’m getting close to 60 I can’t think of any exceptions among my friends-- that ALL people go through a rebellious period at some point in their lives. The kid who acts out in second grade or rebels in highschool then settles down is a typical example. </p>
<p>The less obvious, but in some ways more painful, manifestation is the perfect student, perfect spouse, perfect parent, or perfect employee who has a mid-life crisis/breakdown/implosion. Could be an affair, substance abuse, credit card debt, some sort of unexpected, uncharacteristic behavior. Sooner or later it comes out.</p>
<p>Jami; You try to do so much for so many. I don’t know the details of your story, but you have had some bright stars, supernovas actually. I hope you get some solace from those stars to help you through the nights of sleeplessness…</p>
<p>I don’t have any answers. Those tendancies are a mystery of biology and circumstance, as far as I can tell. Mama can only do so much.<br>
My mother, raised in a genteel household of three girls seven years apart, was positively gobsmacked by her four boys, four in five years. The havoc, the heartache, the fallout–she had no idea it was coming. She did her best to put them back on the rails. Some of them stayed put and some didn’t.</p>
<p>She survived it with incredible grace, partially by putting one foot in front of another and keeping her own intellect alive and partially by appreciating that the fate of her boys was not in her control and partially by nurturing a faith which has meaning and comfort for her.</p>
<p>Thus far, I haven’t had to cope with heartache on that scale. I may have learned things watching her deal with my brothers. Who knows. It’s probably just luck. You know my motto. Never say never.</p>
<p>Cheers, your post on having to deal with a bipolar sibling is truly moving and right on the spot. It is so difficult having to deal with someone with limitations, and even when you know have those limitations, you get frustrated. Now, your brother has a true medical disorder. When deal with kids who just seem to be spoiled jerks, you don’t even have the sympathy card to play. And that is what many of these lost boys are during periods of their lives. Am reading a good book about a lost boy who seems to have grown up “Oh, the Glory of It All” (I think that is the title).</p>
<p>I will look for that book.</p>
<p>Believe it or not, the bipolar brother was well behaved until the week he graduated from journalism school. The three other boys, all born to advantages of intelligence and comfort and as spoiled as any 2005 boy, were absolute tearaways. Oh the stories I could tell…some are amusing but some have too grave consequences and are rarely mentioned.</p>
<p>Big hug to you Jami.</p>
<p>Nine “pages” of discussion on this topic? Why? From my experience the explanation is clear. Elementary and middle schools are “built” for girls. They behave and cause relatively little trouble. They draw the pretty pictures teachers want on history projects. On the one hand I feel somewhat embarassed by this blatant, blanket categorization of an entire gender. However, from my personal observations it is true.</p>
<p>Boys are not valued in school. They are more work. I, as some of you, have witnessed school award assemblies where girls took home almost all the academic <em>and physical fitness</em> honors … and no one noticed!!! I know because we asked teachers and administrators about it later. Their defense was they knew about it (I’m actually not sure they had noticed) but hadn’t thought anything about it. It hadn’t dawned on them that it might be important.</p>
<p>I knew many high achieving girls in high school (~35 years ago). They had lots of opportunities and did, and have since done, quite well. I feel boys and girls were treated much more equitably when I was in school.</p>
<p>I also can’t say I have perceived a bias against women in my workplace over the years. It’s quite the opposite. It’s much easier for my female colleagues to advance while still spending time with their kids than it is for men. This contradicts the stereotype but it is very true. I can’t tell you how many “women in the workplace”, “bring your daughter to work” and “working mothers need time with their families” e-mail messages I wade through each month. It’s as difficult for men as for women to balance career and family. However, this is not recognized by our institutions.</p>
<p>Ours is a very “high-powered” public school district with national exposure in the popular press and high acceptance rates at the most competitive colleges. I also work in an extremely “high-powered” and “name-recognized” institute of higher education. You would think they might know better. However, none of this matters. They are obsessed with the “women’s movement” at all ages. And I suspect this is the norm.</p>
<p>The issue of boys doing poorly is a “big secret” being addressed, as far as I can see, only very late. Popular books have been written on both “sides” of the subject (All the " … Ophelia … "'s, “Real Boys”, etc.). What is lacking (as usual) is simple (and apparently uncommon) common sense. Of course there have been past inequities. No one is arguing that. But enough is enough. We should not attempt to correct past problems by ignoring the next generation of boys.</p>
<p>Full disclosure: a parent of two boys.</p>
<p>Uncle E, your post really resonated with me, thanks. What I found discouraging during my son’s college search and subsequently were the number of special programs on campus designed to help GIRLS make the firstyear transition and to function better academically and socially. </p>
<p>I came of age in the late 60’s and benefitred greatly from the woman’s movement and affirmative action, both personally and professionally, so I don’t deny the need or contribution of both.</p>
<p>However, I think the pendulum may have swung too far and it’s time for boys to get some of that TLC as well.</p>
<p>What would be of greaat interest to me are strategies that parents/educators/others employed to help re-direct boys’ attentions when they drift (far, far) away from academics…I’d mentioned earlier that my S in 6th and 7th grade refused to do his homework and was happy getting C’s. It was not until he went college touring with us and his older sibling - - and liked what he saw - that his focus on academics and grades changed for the better. But we had nothing to do with this chnage in attitude-- it was more the demonstrastion factor; that college was no longer an abstract but a very appealing place to him, so much so that he wanted to get good grades so he could go… </p>
<p>Any other ideas such as this that have worked?</p>
<p>I think one of the most important things I did was give my son lots of opportunities: tennis lessons, oboe lessons, drum lessons, soccer, tenor sax, computer camp, two summers living at a uni as I got another degree, travel, piano, programming, volleyball, composition, filmmaking, photoshop, final cut, camping & hiking, boy scouts, high level academics, quality discussion, small school. He didn’t have to follow through on anything. He sampled many things and was active. He kept doing those things he really loved. And I don’t make much money. Everything went into the education pot which included all the above. No new cars, no house etc. In twenty years, when I am an old bag lady I may repent! But so far, so good.</p>
<p>I wish we could put all our middle school boys and girls out on a farm where they do action things most of the day and have a few hours of academics. If I am not a bag lady and have a windfall of cash, that is the type of school I would create…totally based on scholarships.</p>
<p>I have also followed a similar model, Overseas…letting them try many things and hopefully something will click. My middle one is now attending Navy crew camp for a week (never having rowed before.)He’s a big boy and very strong but not a great runner. He’s also a “nice” kid - not cool yet or wild or actively running after the girls (thank goodness.) So he, at times feels a bit “out of it compared to some of our neighborhood boys…” . Fortunately, he’s roommates at camp are just like him and I could tell when I left he was in hog heaven…like a reaffirmation that he’s not the only 15 year old in the world not sneaking off to drink beer and smoke dope.</p>
<p>Another friend suggested that for boys such as ours, sending them away to an Outward Bound Program for a few weeks is also a great idea so that’s the plan next summer. Am already starting to save up.</p>