<p>I really appreciate the last several posts. That’s where my struggle continues. Where is that “Grinnell”, and remember I like the place, that is not quite so ____________(insert non-offensive word of your choice) that fits the definition AND demographic of “being open to all ideas”? Again on paper and in person Grinnell is phenomenal, beautiful, generous with need aid, substantial merit aid program, the right size for D, a wonderful location for D,fantastic omigosh facilities and she wants and needs exposure to the viewpoints that are most often captured by the posters ,stickers, and flyers at Grinnell. She just needs the other side of those issues also. </p>
<p>A doctrinaire campus is not what she is looking for in a school. Washington and Lee is another school that intrigues D a lot and , on many objective measures, fits her as well as Grinnell (beautiful,generous,merit,size,facilities,town size). She has not been able to get past the reputation for conservatism and the prevalence of southern greeks.</p>
<p>This is very difficult. And I know the answer will be as suggested-“there are none (perfect schools)”. I’m almost there with you,folks. Just a few thousand miles to go and I’ll give up. LOL.</p>
<p>Wow! This thread seems to be more Extended cab boogie than Midwest tour, but I like it. Before I continue with the digression, Ill echo Carolyns plea for more reviews from Curmudgeon. Im especially interested in his observations on Centre and DePauw. </p>
<p>But to return to the digression .Im in agreement with Momrath and Cangel, because Ive also learned to accept that the answers are not black and white. However, I dont want to agree with Iderochis conclusions; perhaps because Im afraid Ide may be right, but I hope its because I have some faith in those 18 and 19 year old B & W thinkers. Their sense of clarity may be an illusion, but its empowering. I fully support Cangels statement that intelligent students should be liberal in a pure sense and open to all ideas. Ill add that I believe they have a responsibility to challenge the status quo, whether the establishment is labeled conservative or liberal. If so, the energy and passion (that I vaguely remember) accompanying youth can go a long way toward preventing a critical mass of like-minded people on our campuses and in our country. </p>
<p>After reviewing this, it all that sounds very tiring so I think Ill take a nap .</p>
<p>“Granola”-- could that be the word you are searching for? ;)</p>
<p>Grinnell is widely regarded as the most “granola” of the midwesterns. But did you check out Kenyon, Carleton? </p>
<p>Or in NE: Trinity, Dartmouth, Williams? These are schools that may be a little more towards the middle without snapping all the way to 24 hour Fox news, binge drinking, and formals. ;)</p>
<p>It’s like tuning in the radio when you’re out mending fences in the back 40, curmudgeon. Sometimes there’s only static in between NPR & Rush…</p>
<p>My D attended Grinnell from 1998-2002 and continues to thank her lucky stars daily that she did. It was a great fit. She did not do drugs or drink in HS and as far as I know, did not do it in college, beyond an occasional glass of wine. She had friends who partied more but she never felt pressured. My sense was that some do, and some don’t, and everyone is pretty tolerant. She said that some kids do do a lot of drinking in the first few weeks but that is no different than probably every campus but Brigham Young and the few other dry ones. While her politics are decided liberal she is pretty observant Jewishly and went to weekly Friday evening dinners at the local version of Hillel. The dinners were enormously popular among kids from other religious traditions too, as well as those who weren’t practicing anythings, because they were warm and welcoming to everyone and kids just liked being there or they went along with their Jewish friend.</p>
<p>As for Iowa, I think kids need to look beyond the stereotype to see what Grin offers. Some simply won’t do that and Grin probably isn’t for them.</p>
<p>She remains in touch with many Grin friends and with several of her professors, to whom she has turned on a number of occasions since graduation, as she faced big decisions. She worked hard but she loved it. Grin not only gave her merit money (and matched another offer) but they also paid for her to do an internship one summer, which was arranged courtesy of a Grin alum. At the end of junior year we got a letter that she would get more money, from a fund for outstanding students in her major. The tuition bills were still hefty but we were all so pleased we actually found ourselves happy to donate when the annual fund call came… </p>
<p>Now my son loved it when he was there at age 11 for the first parents weekend, but by graduation 4 years later, he had absolutely no interest in Grin - too alternative, too small, few serious teams, too intellectual, too in the middle of nowhere. But D’s idea of a great evening in HS was to gather some friends and read a play by Shakespeare aloud. S’s idea is to watch a HS game; that is, if he isn’t playing in it… Different strokes, for sure. As S put together his college list, D assured him that there are jocks at Grin. But he still wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole.</p>
<p>C’mudgeon, in searching for the Nirvana of LACs, teetering on the cusp of liberalness, I would suggest looking for the school with the lowest percentage of in-state or in region students, in other words the most “national” student body. Another suggestion that I am not as enarmored with is look at schools a little more liberal than she is, or schools that are a little out of her comfort zone politics-wise. I don’t like that idea as much because I’m not sure you want to push her out of her comfort zone too much.
As DD went through her “I love it, I love it not” process, I think she decided being 1000 miles away from home was change enough, and began eliminating other sources of discomfort, ie, city life.</p>
<p>By popular demand.Trip report on Lake Forest, “Chicago’s National LAC”.Located in a very upscale neighborhood, and I mean neighborhood, a mile or so by winding residential roads lies LFC.The campus is divided into 3 distinct but connected campuses (D swears that they feel like one campus walking, the separation strictly a function of deep tree covered ravines blocking the way for cars). Campus was covered in snow and very attractive. The facilities were very nice and appeared well maintained although there were some complaints about maintenance in the Honors dorm.School spirit appeared to be there in abundance and LFC logo’s were seen everywhere.Kids ran the gamut from jock,to prep,to rich-ies,to alts,to sophisticates. Really a nicely mixed bag.Attractive student body.</p>
<p>A great deal of emphasis is placed on using Chicago as the “classroom” and the quality of the professors. They take great pride in the founder of the inventor of holography and some huge electron microscope. D was very pleased with the residential feel of the campus and the friendliness of the students. She was immediately embraced and whisked off to some special girl huddle and came back with informal overnight offers (as she was at DePauw). The cafeteria was the second best of the tour with DePauw winning hands-down. (D walks by and says LFC wins the caf challenge-with the freshly made to order personal pizza. My BLT wasn’t all that great.)</p>
<p>The town of LF was really cute and had ample part time employment ops babysitting, taking care of the local rich folks kids was supposedly quite lucrative. Hey, D loved the idea. $ is $. Several cafes and restaurants. Chi-chi clothing and doo-dad stores. Very quaint. Very upscale.Would appeal to some, put others off. Didn’t phase D one way or the other BUT she felt safe and a million miles from the city (a good thing).</p>
<p>D really liked the 45 minutes by train in to Chicago. Felt that Lake was maybe a little less occupied on weekends than let’s say Grinnell but students said they only went in to Chicago proper 1 to 2 times a month. Overall Lake left her a positive impression of a second tier LAC but in all honesty did not seem to have some of the intellectual feel of Grinnell, or even of Centre or Rhodes. Maybe she had a feeling that some probably small portion of the student body was there for reasons other than serious scholarship. Just a feeling. I just asked her and she cannot back it up and says it wasn’t anything that bothered her or would keep her from attending.Admissions staff and tour kids were GREAT.</p>
<p>I think, as the parent of a 2nd semester freshman at Grinnell, that it is not the sort of school you should try to “sell yourself” on. It either captures you (as it did Cur) or it doesn’t. It is what it is…and I don’t think that there is much hidden in a 1-2 day visit. It prides itself on its founding as a socially engaged institution, the ease with which it abandoned or never adopted arbitrary limits on who could or couldn’t attend. My son chose it not because he would be with like minded kids, nor so specifically he could expand his political awareness. He was looking for kids with whom he could be comfortable learning about American life! He wanted to be with open minded, curious, non-plastic kids who would ‘get him’ and I think he has found them. Recently there was some vandalism of an antisemitic nature on campus. He was taken aback that this would happen at Grinnell because his experience has been that it is a live and let live place…which is why non-drinkers, non-partiers, his friends from Nepal, Turkey, China, Kenya, etc…all are working it out together. I am sure my son drinks- and while he commented on the “lack of moderation” evidenced by some, he also noted that with one exception, everyone had toned it down after a few weeks. He had a “head start” in that he has grown up in a country with no drinking age, but in truth he never has been a heavy partier and probably had this out of his system before starting school…This was a non-starter for him in terms of his school search, I have to say. He is comfortable with his own choices. </p>
<p>He is not a very politically oriented person(though he voted with pride in the presidential election), he likes Onion humor, Bollywood movies and listening to the Beatles. He writes parodies, plays jazz piano and does theater lighting. He is the single least judgmental person I have ever met- he is open to just about any new idea- at least to think about it, and he respects and learns from the differences of others without regard to their nature. He’s just a smart kid…who wanted to go to a stimulating school with unpretentious kids…</p>
<p>We also visited Oberlin, Kenyon, Earlham, Macalester and Carleton(and a bunch of NE LACs). In ways Grinnell seemed a balance of them all…it was the place he felt he would be most comfortable with the process of self discovery. If its small size and political insularity mean that he is exposed primarily to one point of view in the student population, so be it. He is learning to think, to analyze, to question. If this brings him to a different political place, I don;t think there will be discomfort in it…</p>
<p>“Felt that Lake was maybe a little less occupied on weekends…” </p>
<p>Cur, Were you at Lake Forest over a weekend? A good friend of ours left there after one year, saying that many kids lived locally and went home on the weekends, and that there was not much going on on campus. Personally, I think that when a kid transfers, it is rarely done for only one reason… And by the end of term two he seemed happier - but he still left, despite the big merit scholarship he had there (which was not window dressing but very significant for this family). What was your sense about the range of activities/events on campus from reading their bulletin boards?</p>
<p>Nope. We were there at the first of the week, right after SB. @70% of the student body is out of state. About 82% live on campus. I would assume that we are not dealing with a substantial commuter situation-more like a week-end trip situation. We did not get the impression that the school would empty Thursday afternoon but just that the campus itself might not have the hold on the students’ interest as strongly as Grinnell would (for what might be obvious reasons). </p>
<p>The bulletin boards were full of activities for the upcoming weekends. Our two tour guides were both instate and said they never went home but did go to Chicago every 3 weeks or so. One “sophisticated” (designer clothes, runway model posture,$150.00 haircut) girl we saw was saying she was in Chicago virtually daily working some intern-y thing (although I got the impression it was for credit).</p>
<p>I honestly did not see any evidence that a student would run out of things to do. They have a small orchestra, vocal groups groups, a nascent “band” (I don’t know what type), an alive club and intramural scene. It was somewhat interesting to listen to the two guides at lunch ,obviously casual friends, as they were reciting their activities (you mean we have a band?LOL.) and hearing that with their busy calendars , they were not even aware what the other was involved with outside their common interests.</p>
<p>Nope. Didn’t get a suitcase school feeling. Got a “part of the campus would be in Chicago a lot and not look for the campus to fulfill all their needs” kinda feeling.</p>
<p>Centre and Rhodes. Probably two of the most overlooked and undervalued schools in America and certainly on this site. Rhodes (Memphis,Tn) has a perfectly laid out carefully matched set of Gothic stone buildings while Centre’s(Danville,Ky.) more brick and Georgian traditionalist look is wonderfully collegiate also. New and impressive buildings . A state of the art library-just opened at Centre. Facilities at both are first rate. Rhodes student life center is especially top drawer. </p>
<p>There are differences in feel and maybe in outlook. Centre feels more pre-professional. Rhodes feels more intellectual. But we are talking matters of degree here. Rhodes has a student body that is 75% oos, Centre 40% oos. Rhodes has 30% study abroad, Centre has 80% (that’s right -80%). Centre and Rhodes both have great merit aid programs.</p>
<p>Student body may mirror some of the above numbers. Centre has frat houses. Rhodes does not. Rhodes has greater diversity. Rhodes may feel a bit more Emory -like ,while Centre has a bit more Vanderbilt with tradition and history looming a bit larger. Rhodes makes community service a pillar of a Rhodes education and it is a clear expectation that those who attend will give back to the community.Both do an excellent near perfect job getting kids into professional and grad programs.</p>
<p>The students were atractive at both schools, not overly “done-up”, lots of sweats and jeans and both campuses appeared to be fairly athletic and fit (borne out by the % of club and varsity athletes). Centre kids appear a bit more outgoing and instantly likable (like DePauw) Rhodes kids a bit more reserved. Staff at Centre is like kin-bend over backwards to make you feel welcome. While Rhodes-a bit more reserved. </p>
<p>Both campuses are set in nice areas although Rhodes is in a residential area of a city with some issues the area for blocks around Rhodes is very nice and the campus security looks excellent. Danville is a small town and the campus is FAR more open, but still feels remarkably safe.Will let this sit for a while and may add more later. D likes both, again for different reasons.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, I’m a little confused. According to the Princeton Review site, 47% of men at Rhodes are in fraternities, and 58% of the women are in sororities. How was the Greek system set up at Rhodes, without frat houses? My S was initially turned off by the high Greek numbers he saw at Rhodes.</p>
<p>I understand iderochi, I was ,too. What they have are “little houses” maybe 250 sq feet,(matching,too!) where no one lives , on campus and right next to everything else. D was convinced that at Rhodes the sorority system was not what she feared.</p>
<p>Thanks – learn something new everyday. So I guess they are “clubhouses”, for lack of a better word? Or maybe “Party Houses” (but at least they’re on campus).</p>
<p>Iderochi, We may have been naive but Rhodes did not “feel” greek dominated at all. Rush is second semester and seems a lot less of a grind than at other schools. BTW Memphis is easy to get around in and the downtown is just bustling with excitement. Minor league baseball ,NBA basketball, Beale Street ,Peabody Place. I’d be a lot of trouble in a lttle time.</p>