It is no coincidence that some of the most ardent supporters of the need for the SAT and ACT are also strong advocates for Murray-type “thinly veiled eugenicist junk science.”
Isn’t this exactly what heavy reliance on the SAT and the ACT would do?
Also see these stats posted by @Data10. And these states don’t even consider that the vast majority of low SES kids don’t even take the test!
I agree that" no college vs. college" is a more important question. But this only seems to be an elitist argument used to justify the negative impact requiring tests has on low SES kids.
How about we entertain the same position for high SES kids? Is the high SES kid with the great test scores being denied access to any college if some elite colleges choose to use test optional?
Access to top institutions seems be considered almost a right for high SES kids, where low SES should apparently be happy with just having access to any college.
Curious on what the forum members think the next school(s) will be to pull the ol’ switcheroo and return to test required. Educated guesses and otherwise welcome.
Not sure how many will switch for 2024 applications at such a late date, but would not be surprised if most of the selectives that were test required pre-Covid will go back.
Pretty small numbers, ~350 Pell Grants at H and ~200 at D. Now, test-required might mean fewer Pells from CA, as it will be much harder for CA kids to test, but there are still plenty to go around from other states.
Makes sense. Selective private. I wouldn’t discount public’s either, re: example of UTA. Imma say Vanderbilt. Their CDS says test scores are “important”. Public, Ohio State, who rates tests as “very important”, and who would likely want to limit a deluge of applications going forward. Maybe?
Not at all. Students who learn the basics at school should do well enough on standardized tests that they should not fear submitting them. I don’t think that the SAT includes any questions that require advanced knowledge on any subject - just the basics.
How about negative impact of GPA, or lack of meaningful ECs, weak essays and personal statements?
Really? Then to whom specifically were you referring when you wrote:
So far as I can tell, those who are considered the “anti-standardized test crowd” have been arguing that schools should be able to determine their own standards for admission based on their institutional goals, not culture war frenzy.
Schools can choose their own standards, unless they accept federal funding. Then they become subject to a host of restrictions, including non-discrimination (title VI), title IX, etc.
The point is that despite the existing, and continuously mounting, evidence that standardized tests matter (see Dartmouth, Yale, etc. Statements on being the single greatest predictor of success at their schools), some continue to ignore that evidence.
Again, Ivys and whoever else can have a juggling contest to gain admission for all I care.
No, that is not the same. Caste systems are scenarios where it is hopeless for an individual to move up. The system you’re describing it is hard to move up. There are people who believe it to be easier than what you are describing if the person is prepared enough to take advantage of such a move. I think you’re the one playing loose with the definition of caste.
I just don’t think the necessity of “elite” schools is true for the super duper majority of americans. Did you know: one can attend a state school, attend an obscure US med school, train at an obscure midwestern residency in a non-prestigious specialty for 4 years, and then find a job in the CA central valley to the tune of 600k+? Did you know: one can attend a mid-range midwestern LAC, take over a factory in the south and turn it into a multi-million dollar business working with Lowe’s / Home Depot that also happens to give a lot of good families a working life? Did you know: that you can go to an Ivy, get a Wall St IB position… burn out and be back home with your parents at 50+? All true, and despite being anecdotal, the extremes of which show me there is a lot of overlap despite the school you go to. Greased skips with prestige? Yes. Road blocks? no.
If we take away the mystique of the Incredi-schools you are pushing, many many kids can get a fantastic education without a 1500+. I’d wager, you’d be doing them a favor if you pushed that path more.
