Contrary to the desires of some, being rich does not make one a protected class.
Not sure anyone here argued that the tests have absolutely no predictive value. I know I didn’t. The issue is whether the juice is worth the squeeze.
As for the rest, the head to head comparisons (test scores vs. GPA) is a false comparison. That’s not how admission works. It’s not zero sum between factors. Not a choice between one or another. When we look at the marginal predictive value of the test scores on top of the other factors considered, there is predictive value, but it isn’t what it is made out to be here.
If we agree that the goal of higher education is to only accept students who have the very best chance of success (I don’t agree with that, but lets assume I do.) then we should focus admissions based on the name of the high school. The name of the high school (not test scores) is the single greatest predictor of academic success in college. So let’s fill up the top college with students from the top high schools only. They’ve got the test scores, grades, study habits, writing ability, worth ethic, ability to pay, etc. They are pre-sorted. Some high schools have median higher test scores than Ivy League colleges. So why not just admit them all?
Good post. Nothing is perfect, much less college admissions, but there are lots of opportunities out there. It’s like swimming in the ocean and having zero clue what it means to be wet.
Did you know all your examples apply to rich kids too? So why the national outrage when high SES parents falsely believe their kid got screwed by TO?
I’m pushing? I’m not in the camp which believes that it is a somehow a national crisis when some schools choose to admit some kids who didn’t submit test scores, over the objections of parents who think their angels deserve admission because they got a 1500.
It is incredibly elitist to think access to these schools matters for high SES kids, but not low-SES kids.
If you ever want to enjoy a nice mimosa, you will need to have some juice, so the squeeze becomes a requirement.
Similarly, if a student has eyes for certain colleges there will be many squeezes required - the GPA squeeze, the essay squeeze, the LOR squeeze, and yes, the SAT squeeze.
Unless, of course, you feel that you deserve all the juice with no squeeze whatsoever.
And they are in the extreme minority. There are another ~2000 4-year colleges in the US that do not require tests, including the vast majority of highly selective colleges. It’s more reliable to look at the reasons and actual research than just naming colleges with a particular test requirement decision.
with the demographic cliff, most colleges do and will in the future accept anyone with a pulse and a checkbook.
college degrees aren’t worth much anymore. nor are high school diplomas.
Why say this to me? One rich, two not in my examples. I had little opinion on the “screwed by TO” aspect other than it raises stress and promotes stressful behavior. I do have a negative opinion on why certain posters keep on trying to make this into a class war. Is it the only lens that gives your argument weight?
If you are in support of social mobility, the school shouldn’t matter; the results do. And schools that don’t require 1500+ can easily propel people to great results. So why do you care if people who don’t get a 1500 go to Sac St or SDSU?
If this were true CC wouldn’t exist, and we wouldn’t be disputing the minutiae of college admissions at elite institutions. People think schools matter for their kids, but other less fortunate kids should be happy with what they get.
So lemme get it straight: you’re not pushing for access to these schools despite the fact that in your mind attending them matters very much? Ok, I’d like to move on…
I’m personally neutral on the SAT despite having an extremely high testing child and being a high tester myself back in the day. I’m not entirely convinced that it is a great benchmark of academic ability. That being said, if schools thinks it works for them who am I to say otherwise. To them the data is compelling and they have the right to use any metrics they like. And while being SAT required may slightly disadvantage kids from lower SES backgrounds (primarily because it may keep them from applying to an elite school to begin with), it is hardly a significant driver of social inequality. Elite schools educate such a tiny fraction of students that they can’t impact society at a wide level.
Closing for the moment to clean up this hot mess. I’m wondering if some users had their accounts hacked, because some of these posts are over the top.
Cleaning is not my priority tonight. I’ll get to it when I get to it.
For future reference (and really, this should be reinforcement for users on this thread), flag inappropriate posts instead of responding, since the responses tend to spiral the discussion out of control.
