The Misguided War on the SAT

Well, it was easy for me and my best friend as magna cum laude graduates of HYP+ schools and top 10 law schools. I guess we can both easily understand that it might be a bit harder for others. Still, it’s very easy to see how prep courses can help. Yes, there are links to the Khan academy on the Yonkers website. Probably as many students use that as students use the IXL links on our vastly more privileged school’s website. It’s not the same as when your mom schedules a Princeton review 1400+ course for $3000. Really. It’s not.

It’s too bad you think the disadvantages of the poor are far fetched. I’m guessing many intelligent people wouldn’t have such difficulty seeing the hardship. It’s real.

Far easier for the poor to access the free tutoring resources for the SAT than to build the kind of curated extracurriculars and carefully crafted essay that comprise the rest of the application process.

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This guy seems to disagree. 200 point improvement for learning about commas. If only we could roll that out more widely, we could eliminate the entire thread.

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Actually, actions reveal what upper middle and upper class people think on the matter. Most spend significant amounts of money to live in good public school zones or pay private school tuition for their kids’ K-12 schooling, and spend money on such things as extracurricular activities and learning disability assessments for their kids. Such spending would not be possible for most people, especially poor people. Spending on SAT/ACT-specific preparation is just the cherry on top of the various advantages (including the advantages of better K-12 schools that laid the foundation for better performance on the SAT/ACT, among other advantages) that parental money commonly buys for kids preparing for college and career.

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small nit (and pet peeve): Nevada increased HS graduation rate by 32 points

(the percent – 32 of 51 – would be nearly double that, which is a staggering increase)

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Far fetched would be the existence of the 10 magical comma rules that improve scores by 100 points. As ucbalumnus points out, it is about the years of foundation building. This makes the problem much more difficult to solve than test prep.

Really? You and your friend are lawyers? And you had to take a refresher course on the use of commas and punctuation to increase your SAT scores? Perhaps you aren’t practicing lawyers? :blush:

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You’d be surprised. I don’t know if being corporate counsel counts - he does that. In my time at Simsom thacher, they used the british comma - deleting the comma before the final item in a list. And yes 25 years after we graduated from college and nearly thirty since we reviewed for the SAT, we’re not clear on the arcane uses of the semicolon in lists. Are you?

I am always running into nit picking lawyering. It keeps me alert :bell: when I’m drafting

College Board acknowledges that the score gain using Khan is minimal. 20-39 its…using the Khan method and 6+ hrs. Not something I’d be crowing about as an actual solution.

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Getting a 600 on the SAT verbal on the first attempt with no prep, followed by a mid 700 on the second attempt with some prep, 25 years after scoring >99% on the LSAT, sounds about right.

You were/are an excellent (if not elite) test taker who was simply shaking off the rust. The little prep you did helped you get back into “game mode” but did not improve your verbal knowledge (nor was it expected to). Your views on the value of test prep based on your personal experience are therefore of limited applicability to most high schoolers who are not as talented as you as test takers.

And on the correlation between SAT and wealth, you seemed to be arguing against a position that few if any on this long thread of 1600+ posts took. Most agree with you that there is a strong correlation and were discussing other issues and nuances surrounding the SAT.

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My verbal knowledge changed in no functional way between the first and second tests. The only change was an understanding of a few grammatical nits. And that’s where test prep can have a pretty big difference. Having taken a few tests before definitely helped me hone in on what the issue was with my first test. But, even if someone loses a lot of points on reading comp, the grammatical piece is very arcane and disproportionately highly weighted.

Why that aspect of verbal knowledge is so heavily weighted in reality probably reflects that grammar is so poorly taught in most schools. That makes it good fodder for distributing students into a hierarchy. Unfortunately, this choice also puts those with less access to out-of-school resources at a further disadvantage.

A 32 percent increase is 51% * (1 + 32%) = 67%. A 32 percentage point increase is 51% + 32% = 83%. Neither is nearly double. In any case, I think the meaning was clear.

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Mock exams are one of the best ways to prep. My kid improved her PSAT 10 scores by 100 points from sophomore fall to sophomore spring, without prep and without learning much more. It was just having taken the test and being familiar with the format.

Still not a meritocracy, because that assumes that all students have the same conditions to study, to take the test, and have the same level of accommodations for testing and learning disabilities.

Also, the point of Harvard, or of any of the other similar colleges, is not for it to look like Stuyvesant. They want to look like what they are now - the place where the wealthy, famous, and powerful studied and/or sent their kids. All other kids are there because there is a good chance that these kids will end up wealthy, famous, and/or powerful. There are also the kids who are there to keep the illusion that all Harvard students are super-smart and talented.

On the other hand, Caltech looks like Stuyvesant without requiring a national standardized test.

Of course, we cannot call China a “meritocracy”, and India is very definitely not a meritocracy, while the UK managed to maintain a society with generational stratification by class and income, not to mention race, despite all of these having nationalized exams.

I do agree, though, that a nationalized exam will be a great tool.

Still, such a thing would not be some sort of a panacea for inequity, especially in a society in which inequity is embedded into our entire financial system. So long as K-12 students can only get the level of education that their parents can afford, despite having a “public” education system, we will not get even close to having an equitable K-12 education.

This is really a lot of what is being lost in the discussion about the SATs.

While I do think that the SATs are problematic, it is because I believe that they are flawed, nit because the idea is bad.

However, on its own, even the best designed test will not ensure that the higher education system is equitable. It will just make sure that wealthy students will not have additional advantages in testing, compared to poorer students with the same academic abilities. The kids of the wealthiest Americans get the highest SAT scores, but are not getting any of the top academic awards like USAMO.

However, the biggest issue is, like others have mentioned, the huge amount of inequity in the K-12 system.

Even if we are able to create a test which measures the academic abilities of high school student sin a 100% equitable manner, kids who attended underfunded high schools will score much lower than kids with the same innate academic talents from better supported high schools.

That is without mentioning issues like food and shelter security, spaces to study, time to do homework, help from parents, healthcare, etc.

Unfortunately, it seems to be that the lines are drawn between two pretty simplistic views. The first is that SATs, as they are, are a perfect measure of a students academic abilities (inherent or acquired), are entirely fair and unbiased, and they should be required, or even be the main factor in determining admissions to college.

On the opposite end, you have people who believe that poor students who have been failed by the K-12 system are still able to succeed in a high intensity college system, despite not being taught the basics, nor having learned the required skills of homework, readings, etc. They ignore the basic fact that being failed by the K-12 system generally means that the student has not acquired the required skills to succeed in college.

Both are flip sides of the same coin, since both believe that SAT tests are supposed to be measuring something innate. The first group claims that they are measuring inherent, inborn academic talent, while the second believe that they are only measuring wealth and privilege.

Both sides are ignoring the fact that even well designed tests measure the skills acquired in school, and that wealth and privilege do indeed help a student acquire the skills that they need for success in college.

The first side claims that the skills are the result of some sort of inherent superiority and that wealth and privilege have nothing to do with their skills. The second group focuses on the wealth and privilege and ignores the fact that these skills are very real and needed for college success.

It all comes back to the inequity in K-12 education. The first group claims that there is no inequity - that every student in the USA is getting the K-12 education that is commensurate with their abilities, while the second group is denying that the huge inequity has little effect on the critical skills that students are suppose to acquire in high school.

[aside]
I think that the benefits of wealth on SAT scores go far beyond the advantages that wealth has in acquiring the skills that the test is supposed to measure. The fact that the kids of the top 0.1% get better SAT scores than the kids of the other top 1%, despite these kids not demonstrating any other amazing academic or intellectual talents is a pretty good indication of that. But that is about the SAT as it is, not about testing.
[/aside]

Didn’t about half of their professors sign off an a letter to university leadership saying their test optional students were struggling?

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Caltech isn’t test optional. The petition requested shifting from test blind to test optional. The news story mentioned that the petition included anecdotal comments about a decline in preparedness, without statistical evidence. In contrast, Caltech’s 2022 internal study found, “standardized test scores have little to no power in predicting students’ performance in the first-term mathematics and physics classes that first-year students must take as part of Caltech’s core curriculum. Further, the predictive power of standardized test scores appears to dissipate as students progress through the first-year core curriculum.” Further performance reviews are ongoing.

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The obervations of half of all of the professors is statistically insignificant?

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Given that the observations were called “anecdotal”, I assume it was not an observation of half the faculty. I expect it was instead a specific anecdote or anecdotes. The news story said, “it did not offer statistical evidence” of a decline in student preparedness.

You can interpret as you wish. However, Caltech appears to be waiting for their internal analysis, with controls, before changing anything… Even if there was a statistically significant decline in performance from previous years, it’s import to use controls and regression analysis to know whether that decline is primarily due to test blind instead of test optional, effects of COVID like remote classes, change in admission policies to focus more on diversity, a change in kids attitudes about what grades are expected, or one of countless other factors.

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The Caltech petition stated that professors felt there had been a decline in student preparedness. However, the petition did not claim that that the professors’ anecdotal observations had statistical significance. Therefore,

the second call of the petition was for the creation of a faculty committee to evaluate the efficacy of the current admissions process, as well as to gather more quantitative data. Asimow described an already in-progress study on the utility of SAT scores as predictors of success at Caltech.

from President, Provost, VPSA Convene Faculty Advisory Committee on Undergraduate Admissions Policy - The California Tech

It’s also unclear how much of the decline in preparedness might properly be attributed to the effects of COVID related interruptions in kids’ education, rather than test optional applicant selection.

Caltech is trying to figure it out.

Currently, the Advisory Committee is scheduled to report their findings about standardized testing by the end of March, while the recommendations about the role of extracurricular activities will not be released by the end of April. The goal is to have a complete report by the end of May for use in the Class of 2029 admissions cycle, but Rosenbaum and Gilmartin both emphasized that the work of the Committee should not be rushed.

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CalTech would be a devastating place to be underprepared, so I hope they figure it out soon for all involved

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