The name "Northwestern" in Chicago

gd016 · September 5, 2007, 12:03am

I guess this is just for fun.

NU students and Illinois residents,

Post what you think people make of the name “Northwestern” in Chicago and its vicinity, how its student body is perceived as a whole and where it stands it terms of popularity amongst the general and college-applying population of Chicago.

I’ve been in Chicago a few weeks now, and so far the general responses I’m getting from folks here are:

Northwestern?

a good school, very few elaborate from there,
the preppy school in Illinois,
the Big-10 school that sucks at sports (once again another Chicago sports team that disappoints)
clearly NOT the flagship school of Illinois, U of I wins hands-down from what I’ve seen and heard,

not a lot different from the (underrated) stuff i got back home.

I guess I expected responses to be very different, seeing as how Chicago is more or less the home of NU. But I’ve only been here over a few weeks now, so it’s hard to make the conclusion.

We all know NU’s a great school academically, there’s no arguing to that, but I’m just interested in hearing from students who’ve been here long enough and willing to share their honest experience.

p.s. And what’s the deal with UChicago. I hear almost nothing about it brought up when college is the subject at hand, and it seems to me very few in Chicago actually know of what caliber of a school it is, which is very odd seeing as how it is a school, along with NU, that Chicago residents really should take pride in having in their city.

Is this generally true or have I coincidentally met a select group of people uninformed as such?

NUgraduate · September 5, 2007, 1:18am

I went to Northwestern undergrad and grad, and lived in the Chicago area for 20 years, so I guess I have some qualification to give my opinion.

I think Northwestern is “taken for granted” by those who live around it, merely because it is a part of their lives. They do not realize how difficult a school it is to get into, or the calibre of the students. Instead, they see what’s on the outside: the beautiful campus (you MUST have gotten comments on this,) the proximity to the lake and Chicago, the sports teams, and some of the famous people or friends or business contacts who went there. Kellogg is often mentioned among business-people. Many who attended Northwestern stay in Chicago after graduation. It is better regarded in Chicago than other regions, because so many alums stay in the area.

As for U Chicago, why is it ignored? I think for the same types of reasons, the things you can see. It is located on the South Side. The South Side is not safe in some areas. It is “old” - the location of the prior World’s Fair and the Museum of Science and Industry and Midway. The majority of Chicagoans have little reason to be in the vicinity of U of Chicago.

Universities create a bubble around themselves, they live in their own worlds. How to explain? I lived in St. Louis and never knew anything about Wash. U in St. Louis until my daughter went there. I knew it was a good school, but just not how good. I had no reason to know.

There is SO much positive in Chicago, knowing the reputations of it’s major universities isn’t a priority unless you are asking someone who is of college-age, or their parents.

unalove · September 5, 2007, 7:59am

I think NUgraduate has it partly right-- a lot of a city’s own residents don’t think that highly of their own schools (Columbia and NYU were distinct turn-offs for me as a prospective college student, and I can’t really explain why).

The South Side has a reputation for being “the ghetto” and though parts of it are particularly desolate, there are patches of good neighborhoods, and the U of C’s is one of them (Hyde Park). HP is quite picturesque-- tree-lined streets, townhouses, homes designed by Frank Lloyd Wright, specialty shops, etc. You can kinda see it from these pictures: <a href=“http://■■■■■■■■■■/groups/15719500@N00/pool/[/url]”>http://■■■■■■■■■■/groups/15719500@N00/pool/</a>

In terms of name recognition, I don’t have any experience with the Northwestern name outside of my college/prestige-conscious town (I’m a Chicago student, after all), where it is seen as a completely viable “ivy-alternative” and the name impresses people much more than the Chicago name does.

Here’s a copy of the conversation I have had ten or fifteen times with different people:

“Oh, you go to Northwestern! You must know Billy and Johnny and Sue…”

“…actually, I’m at Chicago. Different school, but the same city!”

"…Oh… "

Chicago has two other things working against it in terms of widespread name recognition: a) its “University of” name, and b) it doesn’t have any other undergraduate programs besides liberal arts. NU sends off more students to more distinct fields, through radio/TV/film, engineering, etc. etc. etc. Chicago kids can talk about back in the day when R.M. Hutchins bulldozed a football field to make room for a library. (We did have our football field rebuilt, albeit years later and in a different spot).

I should mention, though, that UChicago name sails very well among people in the position to know more about schools than just their name-recognition value… I once went for an interview and the interviewer called his boss into the office so that he could meet a U of C. kid face-to-face. Personally, though, the market value of a name of a school was the last thing on my long list of concerns when I went to look at colleges.

gd016 · September 6, 2007, 12:25am

NUgraduate,

Would it be safe to assume that a degree from NU or U of C, in Chicago, is perceived as impressive as, if not more than, a degree from an Ivy school, or do employers still prefer Ivy graduates over graduates of the two schools (which, unjustly, seems to be the case elsewhere)?

So far, from the few days I’ve been here (note “few” days), I’m guessing it might be the latter. Going along with my first impressions, I’m almost getting the impression that both schools are almost at a disadvantage in Chicago, at the very least in terms of general perception, mainly because, as you outlined, they are “taken for granted” due to their locational proximity.

Of the overachieving high school students of Illinois, I’m guessing a large portion will select U of I if regional/state pride is a factor or due to in-state financial advantage (this is true for California residents, Cal over Stanford happens occasionally), while the rest strive to make it into high profile schools with national and international prestige. It’s my guess that NU and U of C, for those overachieving Illinois students, stand somewhere in between U of I and the Ivy Leage, not quite the flagship state school with their flashing orange color that everybody recognizes in the state of Illinois but not quite the private elite that provokes the awe that high profile schools like Harvard or Stanford do either.

At the end of the day, for a rising college student like myself though, none of that really matters significantly, but what does concern me is, if the above is true, how do graudates of the two schools eventually fare in Chicago in comparision to graduates of, say, Harvard? As Chicago-based privates, do our graduates have the home advantage that U of I graduates probably receive?

ridewitbd24 · September 6, 2007, 12:31am

I havent seen this at all. Ive lived in the Chicagoland suburbs my whole life and Northwestern has always carried good prestige when it is mentioned. Yes, U of I does get more notice by the general pop just b/c it is the state flagship so in turn more ppl know others that go there. Honestly, whenever I mention I’m going to Northwestern, people are impressed and say that I must be smart or the like. Id say Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT and Stanford rule everywhere but in Chicago all the other schools are held in the same regard as NU. I dont get this “taken for granted” sentiment though. I mean are people supposed to constantly celebrate the school or something? I dont get it.

Pizzagirl · September 6, 2007, 4:38am

I am a grad who lives in the Chicago suburbs as well (though I am not originally from Chicago) and my impressions are similar to that of NUGraduate and Unalove above. I had an interesting discussion with a North Shore-based friend just yesterday who said that her impression of NU is that it’s very “North Shore” (in comparison to, say, Duke, Vanderbilt, Penn, Wash U, other similar / peer schools). This surprised me because I don’t think of NU as any more or less North-Shore-stereotypically-wealthy than any of those other places, and I never had an impression that it was any more dominated by North Shore high-achievers than any other college would be by local high achievers (Nashville high achievers to Vandy, Philly high achievers to Penn, etc.). 
And I agree U of Chicago doesn’t seem to be as known as it should be - but the worldviews of the typical Joe on the street, the typical CC student or parent, and the typical academic or highly reputable businessperson are three different worldviews. U of C and NU are both fantastic schools that can hold their own nationally, and any rivalry between U of C and NU has always seemed to be in friendly jest and mostly motivated by being in the same city.

To the original question, no, neither a NU nor U of C grad suffers any disadvantage in the least in Chicago relative to HYPSM et al.

gd016 · September 6, 2007, 12:49pm

Pizzagirl,

That’s precisely the kind of response I’ve been getting. When I mention Northwestern they automatically think “the school in Evanston.” Having been here only a while, it’s hard to draw a definite conclusion, but I’ve been getting the feeling that Chicago residents often see the North Shore and Evanston somewhat negatively as an isolated wealthy neighborhood.

unalove · September 6, 2007, 1:07pm

gd–

I’m curious as to how you’re doing your experimentation and whom you’re talking to. Though Chicago residents may not realize the caliber of their own schools, you’re rather hard-pressed to walk around the Loop and Streeterville and not see signs of NU and Chicago’s predominance. Northwestern has its hospital right on the magnificent mile, Chicago Graduate School of Business has its satellite Gleacher Center right on the river, the U(C) Hospitals advertise at Blackhawks games, etc. Perhaps I’m the only one who’s soaking this in, but perhaps not. I don’t know much about the quality of Pace Law School or Hunter College, but I know that they are both in prime locations in New York City.

Are you chatting with relatives and friends and people you meet, or are you chatting with employers, alumni, and others who are in the position to know a little bit more about Northwestern and UChicago?

biggestbox · September 6, 2007, 1:57pm

NU has a huge advantage if you want to stay in Chicago. If you want to leave Chicago, you are definitely at a disadvantage, not because of the school but because of the schedule. b/c NU is on quarter system, the recruiting process is later than other schools (ex Stanford). What does this mean? It means that after you get past a first round interview, and go to New York for the finals, they have already offered out 3/4 of the positions to kids from schools that start before you. This puts a lot of pressure to get yourself recruited early in the season.

On the flip side, you guys might be interested to know that NU has a pretty good reputation in Asia. Everyone has heard of Kellogg and therefore assume you are somehow related (this only works in Asia). Asian kids with decent languages skills have no problems getting banking or consulting positions in HK, Singapore, China ect ect. And BTW–you make more in Asia starting out because of housing allowances, and the weak US dollar, and taxes.

cool beans.

kyler242 · September 6, 2007, 3:21pm

It would be safe to assume that if you excel at a school like NU or UChicago there will be no doors closed to you upon graduation.

NU and UChicago are absolutely at no disadvantage when it comes to what matters most: getting a job or pursuing an advanced degree when you graduate.

It is impossible to make any sort of generalization like that. Many Illinois students consider NU and UChicago to be better than many of the Ivys, while others just want to get the heck out and go to school in another part of the country. The same can be said for students living in virtually any region that surrounds an elite university.

They do just fine.

I personally believe that much of the bad rap Evanston gets is unfounded. Yes, it is part of The North Shore. But, Evanston is right on the border of Chicago and is much more socio-economically and ethnically diverse than many people realize. Just venture over to the west part of the city and youll see what I mean. If you truly want to know what an isolated wealthy neighborhood looks like, head north and check out places like Wilmette, Winnetka, Kennilworth, and especially Highland Village. Those North Shore suburbs make Evanston look urban and plebian in comparison.

biggestbox, I dont know what firm(s) youre basing this on, but somehow I find it hard to believe that the majority of NU students would agree with you. In fact, you are the first person I have ever seen cite the quarter system as a disadvantage in the recruiting process.

Pizzagirl · September 6, 2007, 5:39pm

“It is impossible to make any sort of generalization like that. Many Illinois students consider NU and UChicago to be better than many of the Ivy’s, while others just want to get the heck out and go to school in another part of the country. The same can be said for students living in virtually any region that surrounds an elite university.”

I agree. It’s not that they don’t think NU isn’t a great school (and U of C too, of course). It’s that the fact that it’s in their backyard means that it’s sort of an “obvious” choice for a smart Chicagoland high schooler, and for some that means that it’s too obvious and they’d rather go elsewhere.

I’m an NU grad, married to an NU grad, living in Chicagoland, and while there is one part of me that would jump up and down and scream with excitement if one or both of my teenagers expressed an interest in / were accepted / decided to go to NU, the fact that it is in my backyard is really a double-edged sword, because I believe that there would also be benefit to them attending colleges in other regions of the country.

gd016 · September 6, 2007, 6:36pm

Alright well thanks for all the responses.

kyler242, I’m sure NU grads do just fine; I wouldn’t have chosen to attend NU over my obvious in-state choices like Cal had I believe going to NU would put me at an obvious disadvantage against other elite school students in the future.

I sure do hope I didn’t offend anyone, like you all said what I’ve stated are just very general assumptions I’ve put together over a few conversations I’ve had with friends and family and admittedly are very unreliable generalizations.

unalove, obviously I haven’t been planning a fancy experimentation to find out the general perception of NU in Chicago. My guesses were based on conversations with a few friends of mine who are at the Art Institute of Chicago, U of I graduates and my cousins raised in Chicago. Obviously, what they make of Northwestern or U of C is not the opinion of corporate executives in Chicago, but I don’t particularly see a connection amongst the people I’ve talked to, other than a general age group perhaps, to be able to point out a bias they might have against the two schools.

Rest assured I’m very excited about attending Northwestern and I cannot wait for school to finally start. I’ve been brought up in California all my life and for me deciding to move out to a new part of the country was exciting, but my choice was discouraged on many levels back home, simply due to the fact that NU was in the Midwest. I guess I hoped that, in Chicago, NU would clearly get the respect for the level of school it is more so than it does back home.

At any rate, thanks a lot for the input guys.

bver100 · September 6, 2007, 7:02pm

Just a last comment, Biggestbox is correct about its reputation in asia. I recently came back from hong kong and there’s billboards in the airport talking about “world’s best business school” in reference to kellogg and hong kong u’s joint program. Kellogg was also in the airport last year promoting a business conference they were holding.

Also, from thing’s ive been told by taiwan friends and relatives, NU is a bigger name than HYSP and such

NUgraduate · September 6, 2007, 7:32pm

I think Northwestern is a bigger plus in the Midwest than it is in the Northeast - primarily because Chicago is such a great town that many NU graduates choose to stay. Therefore, more potential bosses are from NU (or UChicago,) and school-pride runs deep.

I don’t believe Northwestern is viewed more highly than an Ivy, nor an Ivy necessarily more highly than Northwestern (except by someone who attended an Ivy, in which case - nothing else compares.)

There is a bias towards your own school… and that’s the crux of it.

In the Northeast, Northwestern is viewed highly - but not as much as the Ivies (in my opinion.) This is because the Ivy grads tend to work in NYC after graduation, thus a greater chance of potential Princeton boss vs. U Chicago or Northwestern.

When push comes to shove, it doesn’t matter much in the long run. There is an “acceptable set” of great schools.

Northwestern is competitive, and whether it is a degree more or less than another school, it will reflect well on it’s graduates for years to come. In the meantime, it will be (hopefully) a wonderful place to spend four years.

My youngest daughter is thinking of applying to Northwestern early decision. She has perfect grades, fantastic scores, great extracurriculars, etc… I believe she could get into any school she wants (or at least have a legitimate shot at acceptance.) She decided she didn’t want to go to an Ivy for many reasons - mostly because she wants a better balance, and a better life. She feels that Northwestern is the best fit with her personality.

Let’s face it, some of the Ivies have some strong negatives to go with their strong positives.

RANKINGS should NOT be the only factor in choosing a school. Provided you’re going to one of the top schools (I wouldn’t dip down too far in the list, but that’s my bias) I think all is good.

Also keep in mind, if you are a good fit with the school, you will probably do better socially and academically.

NUgraduate · September 6, 2007, 7:35pm

Also I think Northwestern fares well in the Los Angeles area. Our grads are overrepresented in the entertainment industry : ) There is a definite network of NU grads helping NU grads out there. There was even a joke to that effect on the now-defunct sitcom “Joey” about how he pretended to be a Northwestern graduate to get a job.

unalove · September 6, 2007, 7:44pm

To my understanding, the NU mafia runs the Colbert Report.

gd, I didn’t mean to grill you, so to speak, but rather I wanted you to be aware of the limitations of your own field tests.

As I would put it, anybody who cares about such a thing like the prestige of a university is going to look at the US News list, and anybody who bothers to look at the US News list is going to see that NU is ranked among the Ivies. Even though the US News rank might be the trashiest and least reliable rankings in all of human history (read: I think they are), they are still quite authoritative and quite respected by the prestige-conscious population.

kyler242 · September 6, 2007, 8:45pm

gd, I apologize if my words came across harshly or condescending, I did not mean for them to. My short statement was intended not only to assure you (based on your question to NUgraduate) that NU and UChicago grads compete quite favorably, but also to avoid starting a whole X school is better than Y school for getting a job in Chicago or elsewhere debate.

Congrats on your excellent college choice. I hope that your experience at NU proves to be so incredible that your friends and family back in Cali wonder why they ever gave you such a hard time for moving to the Midwest ;)

dcb07 · September 7, 2007, 12:26am

Just to add a little more input from a Chicago kid going to Northwestern. Hundreds of kids from my high school end up going to U of I and only about 10 go to Northwestern each year, but there are never kids who turn down Northwestern to go to U of I. Northwestern definitely carries more clout with its name because a U of I degree is a dime a dozen in the Chicago area. Being a Northwestern grad is different and more special than a U of I grad, not saying that U of I is bad at all (it wouldve been my choice if i didnt get in to NU) , but NU is simply higher regarded. With everyone that I know (family, friends, neighbors, etc) when I tell them that I am going to Northwestern they are always impressed. Also from my experience, most people are aware that U of Chicago is a good school as well, but it is more common knowledge that NU is the good school in Chicago and not many people are down on the “rankings” and simply know that NU and U of C are better than U of I.

ridewitbd24 · September 7, 2007, 2:29am

^ completely agree. Especially the dime a dozen part :)

Pizzagirl · September 7, 2007, 5:47pm

To put it another way, U of Chicago (which is a very fine school, no question about it) just doesn’t have as broad knowledge and awareness among the general Chicagoland population as Northwestern does. This is no reflection on U of Chicago; frankly, I think it’s a reflection of the superficiality of the average Chicagoland man-on-the-street, who has more awareness of NU because it’s Big 10 and in a location that isn’t as off the beaten track as Hyde Park. But personally, both NU and U Chicago are extremely well regarded among the people who matter, both in Chicago and elsewhere, so who cares what the average Chicagoland person thinks!!

The name "Northwestern" in Chicago

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