Since we are on a college forum - the girl who took us on a tour of Bryn Mawr had a purple streak in her brown hair. it looked great on her. It would look out of place on my very preppy, clean-cut, fresh-scrubbed looking daughter.
“I enjoy color and playing with makeup. It’s fun. I don’t regard it as a chore or something I’m doing to please society or “the man”. Anyone who has met me or seen pictures of me would probably laugh at this discussion because I am a casual, athletic, low-maintenance person, and what I am writing sounds like I wouldn’t answer the door without my lipstick!”
I have met MOWC in person and I will attest to all of this! She enjoys wearing cute athletic outfits for her running, too. Same difference, really. And I know that what I’m writing sounds like I’m wearing tons of makeup when in fact I’m wearing eye pencil, lip gloss (which wore off hours ago) and a little bit of cream blush, over moisturizer and sunscreen since I have good skin and intend to keep it that way. My freckles show and that’s fine.
I keep a travel journal when I visit foreign countries. 3 years ago I was in Rome during an unexpected, once-in-a-blue-moon snowstorm. I wrote in my journal (paraphrasing) “I determined that I was going to be Audrey Hepburn in Roman Holiday, so I put on a black turtleneck, pulled my hair up in a bun, put on extra eyeliner and off I went” (and then detailed my day). It was fun to walk around knowing that I looked particularly good and was channeling an icon. I don’t get why some of you see all this as some kind of kow-towing to the Man. I didn’t know a single soul in Rome nor did I need to. I looked good and that made me feel good.
“No. What I am arguing is that a Vogue cover shoot is what it means to be attractive and someone with purple hair and make up is not attractive.”
But that’s a straw man. Anyway, Vogue cover shoots are not necessarily meant to be attractive. They’re meant to be provocative. Almost like thinking about clothing as costume design for a play, or as representational.
Anyway, if there is pressure on women to look a certain way (a la Vogue), the vast majority of them appear to have completely rejected it, since I see a lot more frump and cat sweatshirts out there than I see Vogue-style. So I don’t think there’s a lot of worry out there.
“On the topic of makeup, you can wear it and you can not wear it. Do some, if not most, people look better with it? Yes. Fresh, clear skin is always a plus in my book. Does that mean everyone has to wear makeup because they look tres drab without it?”
Is there a meaningful difference if I wear moisturizer on my skin because it’s getting drier as I get older and I’d prefer to prevent wrinkles, versus if I wear tinted moisturizer which adds a hint of color and evens it out? Is one thing “good” and the other “bad”? Is one deep and the other superficial?
I think I am going to give up on this thread, at least for a while. I don’t think anyone’s mind will get changed which is fine (I maintain this thread is a great illustration of what unreasonable, superficial pressure women face in society). People have said over and over again, no one is preventing you from wearing makeup or even saying it looks bad, unlike the pro-makeup people who have said everything from women NEEDING to wear, to that it looks cleaner, better, not ‘plain’, etc. etc. etc.
This thread has exhausted me. I and my beautiful, makeup-free face are off to live our life
Pressure is all about creating a closed system, as physics teaches us. When one opens up her world and accepts that neither Vogue not artificial “naturalness” are the “bible”, there is no pressure.
Donna, I didn’t get that message AT ALL, whatsoever, from the series. To me, the series was more the story of an interesting and dysfunctional family, with the father’s transition just a point on which various stuff pivoted.
For what it’s worth, I rarely wear makeup at all, and I am close to Caitlyn Jenner’s age–turning 67 this week. Yesterday I spent my whole day with my shirt inside out, which was embarrassing but I figure that when I walk through various streets of Brooklyn, I am pretty invisible anyway! But I have never doubted that I match my secondary sex characteristics–I am definitely a woman.
Looking at photos of myself when I was younger, I see many in which my makeup was kind of unfortunate! But whatever.
I’m with Acollegestudent. Can’t take one more, “I’m not saying; I’m just saying.”
I’m willing to say it’s just two different approaches-- why always the “But this…why not this, how about this? why is this product bad?” Why can’t just be “different approaches” without the “but [do you brush your hair, do you use moisturizer, do you do you do you]?”
For a lot of early-transitioning trans women, wearing a lot of makeup is actually quite necessary in order either to “pass” (a term I hate because it implies pretending to be something you aren’t) or blend in with other women, or, even if that isn’t possible, to provide some female-coded “signifiers” to passers-by, together with clothing, to try to counteract other signals (facial structure, body size and configuration, beard shadow) that might combine to convey an initial impression of maleness. Heavy foundation or “pancake”-type makeup can be especially important if that trans woman has a heavy beard shadow because she hasn’t yet undergone facial electrolysis and/or laser treatments. Nothing signals “cross-dresser” or “transgender” person more than someone with heavy beard shadow wearing women’s clothing! Obviously, there are very valid reasons of safety associated with trying to blend in; it isn’t all about vanity!
Makeup can also be a security blanket. It isn’t easy to go out in public presenting as a gender other than the one to which you were assigned, and have to worry with every step that you’re going to scare the horses or that small children are going to throw rocks and tomatoes at you. That’s how I felt the first few times I went out in public presenting as a woman, until I realized that nobody seemed to be paying attention to me at all. And, after several years of transitioning medically, that I was getting “Ma’amed” on the street a considerable percentage of the time even while wearing male clothing, and that all I had to do in order to bring that percentage close to 100% was to cover my head (to conceal my then-male looking haircut) and put on some lipstick. Still, for a number of years, even though I eventually stopped wearing any foundation at all, I viewed lipstick as sort of a magic gender-changing machine for me, and wouldn’t even go across the hall to put out the trash – never mind go out in public! – without putting on some lipstick.
Now, before I go outside, all I usually put on is some clear mascara, some concealer in appropriate places, and lipstick. If it’s a big occasion, I’ll substitute regular mascara and add some color to my cheeks. Unfortunately, I never had anyone to really teach me how to put on makeup, so it was basically a trial-and-error process; once I found something that people said looked OK, like a particular lipstick, I stuck with it and have only worn that one lipstick ever since. So if I’m expected to get really dressed up – albeit not to a Caitlyn Jenner extent! – I always end up feeling extremely drab compared to other women, since I don’t know how to “do” eyeshadow or eyeliner or anything of the kind.
No pressure but if you want to know the people at the cosmetics counter will show you - that’s what they do You can give them your limits and comfort zone - say if you only want to use 5 minutes and 2-4 quick products.
I second what saintfan said. This will also give you a chance to test-drive some products to make sure you don’t spend money on something you will not be comfortable with applying yourself. You don’t really have to buy any of the products they demo!
Most girls who wear make up go through that trial and error time in their teens - we have all seen the errors. It doesn’t just come naturally usually and I certainly didn’t want to learn from my mother who was still in the blue shadow stage in my teens Carmindy from What Not to Wear has some good tips on how to look “fresh” and enhanced without looking really “made up”. Of course, per the previous discussion this is not mandatory and no judgement on those who don’t use any make up but if you want a light yet “polished or pulled-together” look this is a decent place to start.
Well, first I was coming to something in reference to this:
" guess I put it all in the camp of: not wearing torn or dirty clothes, practicing good hygiene, wearing clothes that are flattering rather than dated or frumpy, presenting as having energy and a good attitude…"
I do ALL those things above do not wear torn or dirty clothes, practice good hygiene, wear current, flattering clothes and have great energy and a great attitude - and, I wear no make-up! And get this - I WORK IN ACADEMIA - medical academia at a medical university campus - let me tell you, there are plenty of good looking academic doctors, academic nursing staff, etc. who are plenty attractive! Although, it could be said that after hours of work saving lives, they really are not overly concerned if their lipstick is regularly applied.
I watched that Carmindy video. Her five minute makeup routine takes eight minutes, because the five minutes doesn’t include an extended time putting on foundation and concealer. For what she terms a fresh, light, barely there look, she uses the following products: foundation, concealer, highlight, luminous pressed powder, eye liner, mascara, blush and lipstick. And that doesn’t include sunscreen, though in a blog post she says she uses that, too.
It’s summer. I’m not sure how all that makeup is supposed to interact with sweat.
One of our doctors complained that some of the nurses looked “disheveled” and said they need to start doing something with their hair and put on some makeup. Most complied, but the head nurse refused. She’s still giving excellent care, I might add.
Today was a tame 93 degrees. This morning I put on moisturizer + mixed with a waterproof foundation (acts like a tinted moisturizer), eyebrow wax, light eyeshadow with waterproof mascara, bronzer and a luminous blush. This is my “everyday” look and I do not have any problems with it when going in and outside. Looking at myself now, the blush isn’t quite there although the bronzer is, my face isn’t oily, and my eyebrows are shaped.
The heat didn’t do much. Additionally, when I sweat I dab rather than wipe. I have sensitive skin.
She is also slowed down by talking the whole time. The point is not that everyone needs to do this and “fresh” is in quotes because it’s not as if you won’t look fresh w/o make up. The point is that if you want to know how to do a fairly light, fairly quick, basic day look this is a decent place to start. Note the word “want”. My 5 minute face includes BB cream, top lash line eye liner, mascara and light lip color. I find a light/neutral “shadow” evens out my eye when I want to add one more thing for a more pulled together but still light day look.
BB cream is a SPF 15 sunscreen plus sheer foundation plus moisturizer all in one.
. . . and I am even sharing this because Donna commented on experimenting with and learning how to achieve a soft day make up look for someone who wants that kind of thing.
You can give them your limits and comfort zone - say if you only want to use 5 minutes and 2-4 quick products.
Carmindy from What Not to Wear has some good tips on how to look “fresh” and enhanced without looking really “made up”. Of course, per the previous discussion this is not mandatory and no judgement on those who don’t use any make up but if you want a light yet “polished or pulled-together” look this is a decent place to start.