The new Caitlyn Jenner

Parent Cafe
1141

@consolation: On those grounds, I am totally in alignment with those who are angry about her portraying being a woman as being a barbie doll. It is kind of ironic, it is very much the same with the cis woman in the Kardashian clan, who have basically done nothing except be celebrities, and if you look at Kris, Khloe, Kim and the rest, that is exactly what they promote too. With Caitlyn, besides the fact that she has been part of the Hollywood community that to quote Raymond Chandler, has the depth and character of a paper cup, also rushed into going public when she was not even half formed as a person. It is very, very common with transgender women when they are first exploring, the image they project, the way they dress, tends to be over the top, and Caitlyn being a giant barbie doll is very much in line with that. It actually is a negative of the position she is in, she could bull through and rush things, that many who are transgender cannot, because of her financial resources, she could jump out there with the surgeries, and the stylists and makeup artists, when to be honest I donā€™t think she is anyone near close to defining who she is. Transition for most is a pretty slow process, partially to be able to figure out who they are, but also because financially transition can be very expensive, electrolysis on a typical beard can be 30-40 grand or more, and take years.

The best way to describe it is like the teenage girls who get into the over the top dressing and such, or more accurately might be more like little kids playing dressup.

Not to mention her political ideology and the fact that she cannot see what the lives of many trans people are like, or that her claims of being sympathetic to her ā€˜transgender sisters and brothersā€™ look pretty shallow, when she supports a political ideology and party that is itself oblivious to the reality of being transgender, especially if minority, that if they rely on public support, it is because they face a very hostile world, where getting a job or keeping one when you transition, can often be next to impossible for more than a few, and that the party she calls her home is full of the haters who continue to make trans peopleā€™s lives difficult (things like beating back bills stopping insurance companies from excluding transition costs, or the blocking of legislation protecting trans people, yet she blows that off. The coterie she has around her, her ā€˜transgender sistersā€™ bother me, I like Jenny Boylan, but their attempts to play pr with Caitlyn, or to say ā€œshe is learning, give her timeā€ to me is nothing more than a smokescreen, because I donā€™t think Caitlyn personally has the emotional or intellectual depth to understand the reality out there, all she sees is her self interest, and that the GOP promotes her not having to pay much in the way of taxes.

1142

Yup.

1143

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/17/arts/television/i-am-cait-has-been-canceled.html
ā€˜I Am Caitā€™ Has Been Canceled

1144

Proving, once again, that a stopped clock is right twice a day.

1145

@IxnayBob, I guess Iā€™m being dense, but what do you mean? Yes, Iā€™m familiar with the saying, but whoā€™s the stopped clock here ā€“ Jenner? E? I donā€™t get it.

That aside, Iā€™m relieved. The less media attention she gets the better, for trans people and everyone else.

1146

I had no idea she had a show. Or if I did, Iā€™ve completely forgotten about it.

With that said, I second Donna.

1147

@DonnaL, I meant the network and viewers (or lack thereof) were right. I personally havenā€™t watched the show, so I should have kept quiet. The line itself was a cheap shot and a reflex. I donā€™t have a thoughtful analysis.

The entire clan seems to be unworthy of watching, even more than the usual celebrity-driven drivel. The thought that Cait would be the most recognized and referenced ā€œspokespersonā€ for my son turns my stomach. Itā€™s visceral. Perhaps if sheā€™d been more Jenner and less Kardashian Iā€™d feel differently. Cait has undoubtedly done some good for trans people.

1148

Not a big surprise, to be honest the show had its elements of trying to be serious commentary (Mostly people around her, like Jennifer Finney Boylan, who kind of reminded me of professor henry Higgins in ā€œPygmalionā€ except one who had a student who was a dunce) and I suppose it raised some peopleā€™s consciousness, but it was far too much like the Kardashians in the end to be of that much value, I kind of felt like Caitlyn ended up being more like ā€œGeraldineā€ on the old Flip Wilson TV show than being a spokesperson for anything. Someone I work with asked me if I thought the show was canceled because of anti trans bias, and I said I didnā€™t think so, that it was cancelled because it basically didnā€™t have anything that would make people want to watch it, her 15 minutes of fame has passed, and it didnā€™t do anything for anyone watching it.

1149

Some trans people Iā€™m acquainted with detest the very very mention of her and say she has been ā€œweaponizedā€ against trans people. FWIW.

1150

I have heard people say she was so brave for coming out in the first place, that she had so much to lose, but did she? Being part of the Kardashian freak show meant that she knew that coming out as Caitlyn would not only not hurt her, it likely would increase her earnings, given that the more freakish, the more outlandish, the more it sells in that world. Her own show failed in large part because without the rest of the zoo that is the Kardashians, it failed as freak-a-tainment when all she had was herself to rely on, among other things she really is a boring person IMO. If they really wanted to do a show on the lives of transgender people, they certainly could do a lot better than her, there are a lot of amazing, well spoken, people with stories to tell, but what they really wanted was a side show.

1151

MODERATORā€™S NOTE: ā€œI donā€™t want to get political butā€¦ā€ doesnā€™t cut it. Please stay away from political discussion altogether. I had to edit and delete several posts.

1152

musicprnt, I think you know better than that. You shouldnā€™t underestimate the cost of coming out as trans to anyone, no matter how wealthy they are. Itā€™s not all about the money, for her or anyone. As much as I dislike her and think sheā€™s singularly dense and unintelligent. Jenny Boylan and Kate Bornstein ā€“ both of whom I know ā€“ had way more patience with her than I would have had. I donā€™t think I could have stood her company for more than 15 minutes.

1153

I think there was the same -maybe more - vitriol against her as there was against any person coming out as trans, but the actual effect was softened by her fame and wealth.

1154

ā€œshe had so much to lose, but did she?ā€

Well, yeah ā€“ her legacy as an athlete. It may not have a current financial value if she wasnā€™t doing endorsements, but I think most Olympic gold medalists care how they are remembered. Coming out publicly ensured that her transition would always be part of the discussion of her achievements. Thatā€™s a risk.

Iā€™m assuming here that the transition would have had a significant impact on her relationships with her family, especially her kids, even if she lived a very private life.

1155

I watched the show a few times and kept thinking how much more I would have liked it if Cait wasnā€™t in it! The insightful and interesting discussion from the other women on the show kept me coming back, although I would mentally kick myself every time Cait would say something boneheaded.

That said, I do think Cait kicked the door open a bit wider for my trans friends, and Iā€™ll always be grateful for it.

1156

@donnaL:

Obviously, I know the cost of transition, of lost friendships, family, potentially violence from idiots, you name it and it is scary for anyone. However, I donā€™t think she was necessarily that brave in doing what she did in context. Sure, she was scared, for years she hid who she was because she obviously was still making a lot of money based on her past, but to be honest when she came out she already had enough money that even if she lost all her endorsements, even if she was off of 'The Kardashians" (doubtful), she wasnā€™t going to end up in the poorhouse, either and economic fears are some of the greatest. She could lose friends and family, especially children, and that hurts, but for example she also is unlikely to face real violence, given she has security people around her and lives in a mansion with all kinds of protection. If you said that about Jenny Boylan, I would say she was very brave, if you are talking the young kids they profiled on the show, especially the kids of color, I would say yes, they faced all of that and more in trying to be themselves. What made it worse is in some ways the show and the publicity she turned out tried to make it seem like she was some sort of hero, when the issues she faced quite frankly are a lot less that what many trans people face, she was insulated from so much. If she had come out at Caitlyn when she had just won at the olympics and became this major figure I would say it was really brave. Someone said what about putting herself out there for criticism, being made fun of, etc, and being in the limelight? If you ever watch the Kardashians, she was an object of ridicule long before the transition stuff came up, she already was part of basically a circus sideshow that is the Kardashian clan, so I donā€™t think she had much to fear there either.

It isnā€™t because she is well off, there are trans people out there who were secure when they transitioned, had jobs they knew would support them, were well off, etc, and I wouldnā€™t be saying the same thing about them, because I know how much pain those people went through, what it took to face those fears. However, with Caitlyn I cannot have much sympathy, because relative to what many trans people go through, she was an insulated from the consequences as anyone could be and yet in many ways I felt she was putting herself out there as this brave person risking all to be herself and that isnā€™t true, and after having seen the real consequences trans people face in the real world, her existence in la la land barely amounts to much, and her arrogance and contempt for what others go through means I could not in good faith ever look at her as any kind of hero, I have known a lot of people I would consider heros in the transgender community, people who came out when it was much worse than today, people who face all kinds of hard, horrible life choices but persevere, and all I see when I look at her is a privileged, arrogant and dense person living in her own reality and not really giving a crap about what really facing consequences is about. I generally donā€™t criticize people and their life decisions, I know how hard it is, but she is so clueless, so dense and so arrogant that I cannot in good conscience not be critical.