My op was edited. These "few outliers concern me, especially because the people being attacked are some of “my people”. If my few anecdotes don’t move you at all, well,…we can’t win them all.
Yeah, I can’t be too swayed by a few outliers and anecdotes when I have firsthand knowledge of and experience with the overwhelming preponderance of suffering endured by POCs and other minorities.
Yeah…if the individual rights of a few students need to be sacrificed for the greater good, so be it. After all, as the late great Mr. Stalin said, “you cannot make a revolution with silk gloves.”
Marvin: wait, so you are moved by my suffering after all?
I always thought his best quote was:
“Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.”
Very true for college campuses these days.
@zekesima:
you keep talking about violence against conservative voices on campus, then cite violence against pro trump people (while leaving out, of course, the violence of pro trump people, and more importantly, that what their candidate has said, the vile nature of it, isn’t exactly a lesson in civil discourse). I read the posts that talk about speech lists and speech codes, but none of them gave examples of where a student was disciplined or expelled for using one of the ‘reserved’ words or whatnot, or ‘advocating conservative positions’. I suspect if someone finds such a citing, it would be for someone expressing something in a hateful way, or deragatory, there is one thing about what you express, another how, and quite honestly I haven’t seen any cases where people have been censored for using one of the ‘reserved’ words or whatnot. I have seen examples of what I considered to be over agressive assumptions of intent, but they also were pretty isolated examples.
@foosondaughter:
The problem is there are rights for a lot of minority students, and what rights do the ‘conservative minority’ face with something like speech guidelines that have no penalty? I keep hearing how this is throttling ‘conservative voices’, but is it throttling conservative voices or attempting to shape how those voices are used. Does conservative voice mean always showing contempt for people they don’t like or believe are weird or whatnot? For the record, I don’t like speech codes, I don’t like assuming bad intent when someone uses something someone might be sensitive to, I would rather educate and assume the best, but I also have seen what is considered ‘conservative voices’, and often it is people harking back to the good old days when you could deride some members of a minority group and not get called on it, there is a difference between belief and how you express them, and often what I have seen is someone talking like Rush Limbaugh or the like getting called on it.
So Rush getting a beating for his words wouldn’t bother you?
I would be bothered, yes, for a lot of reasons. Rush Limbaugh is a vile hate monger, always has been, but the answer to blowhards like him is to answer his lies and distortions with the truth. To be honest, I also would be upset that someone would be dumb enough to assault him and get in trouble, it isn’t worth it.
That said, you are making it seem, @zekesima, that young conservative people on campuses are getting beaten up or expelled for stating their beliefs, yet none of the links you posted said anything of the kind. There is a difference between speech lists and the like (which I have my problems with), and someone getting beaten up for what they believe. Citing examples of pro trump people getting beaten up in society is not the same thing as we are talking about here (and I will add how about the Trump supporters who have been charged with violence when confronted with protestors). The idea of this mass conspiracy to silence conservative voices with violence and being expelled is more a truth of right wing blog sites, blowhards like Rush Limbaugh and Hannity, then the reality out there, I would be a lot more worried, to be honest, of your son getting drunk and falling down and hurting himself or getting hit by lightening then getting beaten up on a campus because he is conservative. Have their been fights over politics on campus? Yep, the way there are fights over girls, catfights between young women over another person, and just plain drunken brawls, they don’t represent some sort of conspiracy or whatnot.
Not that I agree with it, but obnoxious speech is not even protected under the law in terms of getting beaten up for it. courts, including the Supreme Court I believe, have accepted the doctrine of fighting words, where there is certain speech that is so disgusting, so hurtful to the person it is said to, that there can be justification for violence (for example, insulting someone wife or mother in terms of sexuality or something)…I don’t agree with violence, but even the court found that some speech is so vile that if violence occurs it can in effect be justified by not charging the perpetrator of the violence.
For the record, there were examples in those (and the earlier) links I posted. Just as an aside, what “vile, hateful” things has Rush said? I occasionally listen to him while driving and have never heard anything that falls into such a category.
Well, there were his attacks on Chelsea Clinton’s looks… when she was all of 12 years old (just to start with). And his reference to femi-nazis being established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/03/15/flashback-when-rush-limbaughs-hate-was-televise/184523
To be fair, there is a progressive talk show host that I generally will not listen to because she strays into the arena of making fun of people. I just don’t think it’s right, no matter which side you’re on; but to pick on 12-year old girls on national radio? That’s pretty low.
“Just as an aside, what “vile, hateful” things has Rush said? I occasionally listen to him while driving and have never heard anything that falls into such a category.”
Really?! Your threshold for vile and hateful must be pretty high. A quick google search can easily bring up dozens.
Maybe he’s reformed b/c I never hear anything like that on my drives. Sounds like this all happened in the early 90s. I hear liberals saying a lot worse…
BTW, doschicos, yes, I guess my threshold is high. I’m not easily triggered. I can engage in discussions with people from lots of different perspectives. I happen to think that’s a good thing, and that today’s students could use a little more of that kind of fortitude.
Personally, I don’t think there should be tolerance for racist and ugly comments and I think it a positive when people speak up for themselves as we see with BLM. I don’t call that “triggered”.
However, I’m quite certain I’m not going to change your mind, @zekesima so I’ll be checking out of this thread. I do suggest broadening your “news” sources beyond the biased Breibart, Rush Limbaugh, and other alt-right slanted viewpoints.
Odd that you assume I as a black woman would entertain and tolerate racism @doschico or that my only news sources are those couple mentioned. Why do you make such assumptions?
So are you now stating that because you’re a black woman you are instantly attuned to racism and sexism or are immune from practicing it yourself? You speak for other people of color and minorities now?
This thread should be shut down. There’s no purpose in keeping the discussion going as it’s not going to change one person’s mind.
No, I asked a simple question: on what basis do you accuse me of racism? Just because I am a black person who is conservative?