@ccdd14 Of course you’d think #4 is okay because you used it in defense of saying #7 & #11 are okay. Besides, I didn’t know “totally stupid” was support of a stance. In a college class, your professor would call you out on that. 8-|
@doschicos The link you provided with examples of context for these phrases is helpful. Thank you.
I still think that many of the phrases are benign in most scenarios and that people sometimes look for reasons to be offended where no offense is intended.
But that is exactly the point. It is rare that offense is intended, it is that it is produced out of ignorance. The way to eliminate that is to teach, and not just by saying “because I said so”, but to show why someone that comes from a very different world perceives things in a very different way (given their history) and in an eminently reasonable manner. Most biases are unconscious. Bias is not the same as bigotry. IMO just because someone says the phrase “melting pot” is a sign of bias doesn’t make it so. I have seen their logic and while it is well intended, I just cannot agree it is persuasive. That is also true of a few on this list, to me, but given the purpose of the list of course I would follow it as a tour guide or whatever. But most of the ones that seem to stick do have a strong basis in history and current societal norms. You have agreed that some examples of things that used to be acceptable you would never agree with today. Most of these are no different.
@MOMANDBOYSTWO Sometimes it’s hard for us to measure whether things are benign because we haven’t walked in others shoes and been subjected to the same things repeatedly. Some of them speak to me more than others do because of the life I’ve lived and my own circumstances as a female in a male dominated workplace or because of instances that I’ve witnessed having people of color as family members. Others speak to me less directly. However, what I do know is that if someone is willing to point these things out as being bothersome or hurtful, I’m willing, despite being an “old dog,” to try and adjust my speech and “learn new tricks” if it means that I am less likely to offend others. No skin off my back to do so and it seems like the thoughtful and considerate thing to do.
Why would anybody - ever - want to say something that is hurtful to someone else?
I’m glad that somebody has taken the time to compile a thoughtful list of phrases that could be hurtful. Some of these phrases surprised me too, and made me think. I will now take care to avoid saying them. I’m sure there are many more such words and phrases, and new ones pop up every day because our language is fluid.
Let’s applaud the college for undertaking the important task of at least trying to teach empathy and sensitivity.
I know what you’re saying. Most people wouldn’t, but plenty of people would, and do, on a regular basis.
I know a couple of people like that. It makes them feel superior when they put people down, I guess.
No list of suggestions is going to change the people I’m thinking of, but I do think it’s a good idea to do sensitivity training.
I’m in the anti- “sweetie” camp. Nurses used to call my mother that, and it irritated me. When it’s coming from someone younger, they might as well ask the older person if they went poopies, and need their diaper changed. I’m from the northeast and I think it’s obnoxious. Save sweetie for little kids.
You are completely right, @WalknOnEggShells, save for the very rare, movie-like epiphany someone might have by seeing the result of their bigotry. Because that is the difference you are pointing out. People that have an unrealized bias will benefit from having things like this pointed out to them. People whose bias is manifested in outright bigotry won’t care, and will probably even revel in these kinds of slights and worse. One cannot fix the world, but one can improve it a little at a time.
I agree @fallenchemist. I think it’s very possible to change some people, and I think it’s good to aspire to that, but there are some people who are just lost causes.
Let’s remember the context for the whole process – helping leaders to welcome teenagers to an intimidating and unfamiliar new environment. We’re talking about kids away from home for the first time. Some of them are in America for the first time, or away from a community of people who look/sound/believe like them for the first time.
Even if you think the adult world is way too sensitive and PC, can you cut some slack to a bunch of nervous kids and the desire to give them a soft landing in the first WEEK?
This list of sort of banned phrases would make me feel intimidated. Can you say it’s insensitive to make people feel bad for commonly used phrases? (Some on the list are, some aren’t).
I don’t know, @TatinG but this whole issue is triggering me!
I would prefer not to be called sweetie. How I’ll respond depends on context. Will I see them again? (If yes, more likely to nip it in the bud.) Are they of the older generation? (I’ll probably decide it’s too ingrained.)
For an example of why “I feel the same way” a good example was in an article in the New York Times about how to write a bereavement sympathy letter. One of the people they interviewed said that when people compared their feelings with hers, it felt like one-up-mans ship. “My pain is better than yours.” Even if it’s not meant that way, it feels that way. So just don’t do it. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/style/how-to-express-sympathy.html?_r=0
As part of a training guide for orientation - this seems fine to me. It’s for the orientation leaders not the incoming freshmen.
Where does one draw the line, though? All of us probably have things that relate to our own experiences and situations which we then find offensive, irritating, or hurtful. You can’t know what will or will not offend each and every individual unless you are intimately familiar with the issues of EVERY experience.
How about everyone just try to be as respectful to other people as much as possible? Americans often come across to foreigners as overly familiar in a superficial way (When we ask a stranger ‘how are you?’ we don’t really mean it). Sometimes we act a bit too familiar with people we don’t know and just assume they want to be.
While I really don’t understand the weird obsession some people have over what others say, I agree with others here that if this list is merely a casual reference for students (as opposed to a list of enforced restrictions), there is not much harm being done.
I do think these students need to grow some thicker skin though.
I think the potential harm is in codifying what some should and should not say in polite society. It’s one thing to encourage people to be considerate of others. It’s quite another to spell out what that means in term of what should and should not be said, especially when that list includes items reasonable people can disagree with. I agree that anyone bucking this list is probably not going to land in administrative hot water at JMU because there is not threat of enforcement of this “code”. However, codes like this exist in the wider pop culture. The mob enforces those codes, sometimes with violence, as several in recent weeks have found out when they wore clothing on college campuses expressing their views or posted their unpopular opinions on FB. Yes, I know the government is not behind this mob-enforcement. The struggle of the individual to express him or herself in the face of the mob is what I was interested in discussing here.
Also if no one ever says, “I’m sure you didn’t mean it that way, but here’s why what you said is a problem” no one will ever learn to stop saying unintentionally hurtful and mean stuff. It’s a lot easier to learn from a list. My DH recently talked to a friend of our son’s about her new hairstyle. (He’s so clueless he didn’t realized she’d had extensions.) She was very nice and patient with him, but I did tell him later than not every young black woman would have been happy about the discussion.
@MOMANDBOYSTWO said:
She doesn’t sound mean in the slightest. If she simply told the nurse that calling her “sweetie” was inappropriate, it’s not even rude (assuming she didn’t use profanity or call the nurse names).
I’m a nurse and would never presume to call a patient “sweetie.” But I know that in some areas, those terms of endearments are commonly used. In that culture, the nurse should nevertheless understand that some people do not appreciate that level of familiarity. The nurse being “offended” at her patient for telling her not to use that level of intimacy in her speech is not doing what we are taught to do in nursing school, and that is to respect the patient’s culture and preferences.
In that scenario, it’s the patient’s feelings which must be respected, not the nurse’s desire to call patients pet names rather than their desired name.
These all come back to power balance issues. Are we using our language to welcome and include or are we subtly often without being aware of it ourselves using language to put people in their place and empathize their difference or otherness. We don’t like being called on these “unintentional” slights because it makes us uncomfortable to think that maybe we do view people as other. We are essentially saying to ourselves that because I’m comfortable with the current power balance no one has the right to make me uncomfortable by encouraging me to change to make them more comfortable.
@MOMANDBOYSTWO re: post 52. “Articulate still seems like a positive attribute, unless you’re black, I guess…??”
If you said to a roomful of 8th grade girls: “my, aren’t you all good at math!” Would you see that as a compliment or an implicit agreement that girls being poor at math is true prima facae?
Same thing with saying to a black person “You’re so articulate” – what is unsaid is “unlike the other black people I kow or see in the movies or TV.” That’s why it’s offensive.
@CDD14
4. “The same thing happens to me too.” – imagine in the context of speaking with a chronically ill person. Or imagine a young parent struggling yet her childless friends complain about how busy they are. How many insensitive things can be said which would just merit an eyeroll? Minorities face similar comments all the time.
- “What are you?” or “Where are you really from?” – How many times have you been the only non-black person in an all black environment? This gets old real fast – as if I need to enlighten you. I get that often its innocuous, get to know you kind of banter. But this, among other similar things, gets grating over time.
- “You speak the language very well.” – See my 1st reply above. Glad you’re not offended. I’m sure people of your ethnic group who may stumble with accents or grammar wouldn’t mind dope slapping you.
20.” Calling women “girls, honey, sweetie pie” or other familiar terms. - an older woman cashier at my CVS calls everyone “Hun”. Yes, she is trying to be friendly. Do not see anyone offended.”
An older woman, yes. Lots of grace. Even regionally. It’s all about context. But imagine your friend’s 12 year old son saying to your mother: “Hi Sweetie. Can you pass the remote control?”
34.”Saying to a Jewish person, “You are so lucky to have ‘your’ Christmas spread over a week!” - Impact - idiocy.” Because you’re seemingly not in the minority.
This all builds up. If you’re not a minority (and I don’t mean when you happen to be eating in at the Mexican restaurant), then you have little idea. You’re clearly intent on assuming others are simply stupid or over-sensitive b/c your these things don’t apply to you.
I’m Asian – one of the “favored” minorities – you know. Hard work, smart, polite. All that which can become cultural baggage and stereotypes. My god, don’t let me excel at sports. People will faint (e.g. Jeremy Lin)
@TatinG (post #69) These are NOT BANNED PHRASES – but helps for people who WANT to be example of respect and politeness. You can take off your shoes and socks at Thankgiving dinner. It’s not banned, right? Don’t know if it would be well-received though.
@Zekesima: (Post 75) did you know that “jew them down” or “I got gypped” were offensive? How did you learn that? Someone pointed it out to you. Like this list for the young JMU counselors.