I’m not sure that I would be offended, exactly, if someone said that to me. It’s more likely that I’d be completely astonished at the staggering level of ignorance necessary for someone who’s reached college age to make a comment like that. And would conclude that the speaker was probably not someone I would ever want to have anything to do with.
True, it’s not as bad as the people I know who’ve been seriously asked by clueless ignoramuses if Jews really have horns (yes, it happens), but still. Besides, I imagine there are people in this thread who would think the horns question is perfectly acceptable too.
As for the person who proclaimed that it would be idiotic for Jews to be offended by the quoted statement because it’s not as bad as the Holocaust, now there’s a good example of a comment that I do find highly offensive! And equally presumptuous.
Really, CCDD14? You said “If you think about what Jewish people went through this “offense” is nothing.” Please explain just what other events you had in mind. Although it really doesn’t matter what you had in mind; my point doesn’t change.
Your characterization of the impact statement as idiotic just reinforces your presumptuousness. There’s nothing wrong with the statement. Frankly, it doesn’t go far enough.
In general, it isn’t up to you to decide for Jewish people which clueless statements should or shouldn’t cause offense.
And if I happen to feel that a comment here is notably condescending or otherwise merits an exclamation point, I’ll use as many of them as I like. It’s not for you to tell me what punctuation marks to use, after all. Hey, Free Speech!
Similarly, I’m Romani. My people have been and continue to be screwed every way possible.
I’m still offended by “gypped” and I will inform people of why it is offensive.
I think you are well intended, but there is an important difference between educating people about phrases and banning them.
Indirectly related to the OP, It is also important to understand that there are many times when you do not have unlimited rights to say what you want to with impunity.
Examples:
Yelling fire in a crowded theatre
Walking into a bank, saying it is a stickup and demanding bags of cash from the teller
Kindergartener swearing at the teacher
One student telling another student an answer during a test
At a public university you can say any of the things on that list, but it is still possible you will be removed from an event.
Example:
If you stand up in the middle of a church service in the University chapel and begin screaming nasty things about Christians, I am guessing you will be removed. Events can't function if people don't follow basic procedures.
RE:#122. Jewish people who lived for years in antisemitic societies developed pretty thick skin. They would not be offended by this statement. You acknowledged that you would not be offended either. I agree that I could make myself more clear, it was late.
Not everyone knows all details about Jewish holidays. If you want to permanently write off somebody who made this remark - it is up to you.
You don’t need to know the details of every Jewish holiday to know that saying Jews have Christmas for 8 days is wrong!!! By saying that you are implying that Christmas/Christianity is the default standard, and you are comparing Judaism to that. All you need to know is that BY DEFINITION Jews do not celebrate Christmas so why would you even compare a jewish holiday to Christmas?
And I know, you might say “well, I wouldn’t be offended if a Jew said 'it’s a shame your Chanukkah is only one day!”" The difference is Jews are in the minority and have not always been able to celebrate their holidays openly. Christmas is forced on them all winter. You can’t understand why they don’t want their holiday 'Christmas-tized?"
I disagree with the idea that because you are a minority you have special rights to be offended.
Christianity is still a default standard in this country. Christmas is forced on everyone for commercial reasons. I do believe that Jewish people currently have comfortable life in the USA. I would save the right to be offended for more serious stuff.
“Articulate” is a compliment unless it is said with the implication that the speaker did not expect the subject to be articulate based on race or other status. Yes, it is nice to be told that you have a pretty face unless it’s because someone is using it as an upside to defray what they perceive is wrong with your body.
So we were eating dinner at our favorite local Asian restaurant, and it is a mix of various asian styles, sushi, noodle dishes , noodle bowls with broth, rice dishes. We are very friendly with the owner. I think we knew at some point in time where he was from but couldn’t recall tonight as we were talking about it. I pointed out that in the “old days” we could have just asked him where he was from (I think Taiwan, but maybe not), but now it is considered rude to ask that question. I was only half kidding - I would feel totally comfortable asking him, but I do know that in some circles (universities?) it is now considered rude to ask, “where are you from?”… Brooklyn…“no, I mean what country?”… America…“no, I mean, where were you born?”… New York… etc.
I was in a situation today speaking with two women who are good friends. One is Jewish and one not. They were discussing the wedding plans for the daughter of a third friend, also Jewish. The couple are hoping for New Year’s Eve wedding. Non-Jewish woman starts talking about how it will be so beautiful in the hotel in question as the decorations will still be up. Jewish woman says that they would definitely take them down in the wedding area. Non-Jewish woman says maybe you can leave the trees and wreaths up they are so pretty. Jewish woman says they would definitely take the trees down. Non-Jewish woman again says that maybe they can leave just the wreaths. The Jewish woman didn’t set into her friend and explain how offensive and insensitive the whole conversation was because that would be rude. See how that works? It the person who is completely overlooked is offended they have to keep it to themselves to be polite. If they get tired of it and start speaking up more (Black Lives Matter) suddenly others wonder why THEY are being so rude and getting up in people’s faces all the time about PC stuff. The Jewish woman in this story has told me in the past that people still use the term “Jewed down” in conversation with her without batting an eye.
It isn’t just about being offended in the moment. It’s about people around you refusing to actually see you and consider your perspective and experience. It is a mark of utter self-centeredness when we insist on seeing thing only from our own perspective.
The Jewish woman could have kindly reminded the non-Jewish woman that it was a Jewish wedding so Christmas decorations in the venue wouldn’t be appropriate. Maybe then then 1) the non-Jewish woman would learn something and she wouldn’t be offended because her friend spoke about it kindly in a non-confrontational way and 2) they never would have gotten as far as the wreath comment and could have spent the time on a more constructive conversation like what flavor the wedding cake should be.
Addressing it doesn’t have to be done in a rude fashion, right?
She did then the other woman doubled down about leaving just the trees up. It was actually pretty ridiculous. It went several rounds of polite correction and refusal to listen and understand.
Yes. That WOULD be rude to continually ask where you’re from if you’re talking to a natural-born American (with the exception of citizens born abroad)… especially an American of color since white Americans rarely get that question.
The question would be, if you wanted to know heritage, “Where are your ancestors from?” (though even this can be incredibly problematic…) or if the parents are immigrants, “where are your parents from?”
My bio grandmother that I have zero relationship with did this to my cousin about our aunt (not cousin’s mom). My aunt is from Los Angeles. Born and raised. Her parents are from two Asian countries. My grandma kept asking my cousin where my aunt was from and my cousin kept answering “California” and “Los Angeles.” Grandma “Yes, but where is she from?” The answer is still Los Angeles.
It is seen as annoying if you ask “where are you from?” when you really mean “what is your ethnic ancestry?”.
The sequence of questions that you mention also carries the implied assumption that an American born in New York is foreign or less American than others.
I seem to have some trouble getting through to you, CCDD14, so I’ll try one more time. Of course the quoted comment about the “Jewish Christmas” is offensive; the only reason I said I wouldn’t be “exactly” offended myself by such a comment is that it’s too egregiously stupid to take that seriously. But – unlike you – I would never dream of telling anyone else they shouldn’t be offended. That would be presumptuous. And it’s even more presumptuous coming from you, given that you obviously aren’t Jewish yourself. Equally obviously, you don’t have remotely sufficient information (or understanding) to engage in your generalized speculation about what would or wouldn’t offend Jews who grew up in countries where anti-Semitism was more open than here. I just happen to be the daughter of a Holocaust survivor who grew up in Nazi Germany, and belong to several groups for people with a similar background. You might be surprised how reactions differ among people who lived in such settings. Thicker skin? For some. For some, not.
And even if Jews, on average, have achieved more economic success in this country than a number of other immigrant groups, that has nothing whatsoever to do with how “comfortable” or secure they feel in other ways. Especially in parts of the country where they represent a tiny minority, and others can be rather aggressive, expressly and implicitly, about their religion supposedly being the “default standard.” (I could lecture you about Christian privilege, but I suspect that you wouldn’t appreciate it, so I’ll refrain.) And especially with the rising tide of openly-expressed anti-Semitism (and/or use of thinly disguised anti-Semitic rhetoric) in this country, from both ends of the political spectrum.
@Much2learn I was thinking of recent attacks on people wearing M.A.G.A. hats and t-shirts in San Diego and elsewhere, as well as the kidin Alabama who was beaten viciously for Facebook posting “blue lives matter”. He is now in an ICU.
@zekesima
Freedom of speech doesn’t mean that someone won’t punch you for what you say. It just means that you won’t go to jail for what you say. However, if they catch the perpetrators, they will be arrested.
I think in this election there have been people beaten up on both sides, which is poor on everyone’s part, in my opinion. I have specifically observed one of the two candidates complaining about PC culture, but then saying he would like to punch protesters in the face, and that he would pay the legal bills if supporters assault protesters. I hear that as claiming his free speech rights, while simultaneously trying to suppress the free speech of the opposition.
