I think we can all agree that beating people up is wrong and not to be condoned. That has nothing substantive to do with this thread, though.
@marvin100 " think we can all agree that beating people up is wrong and not to be condoned. That has nothing substantive to do with this thread, though."
It does because @zekesima is the OP, and s/he is saying that these incidents are what is concerning him/her about freedom of speech.
Yeah, and @zekesima 's entire point has been pretty roundly refuted 
@Much2learn
@Zekesima the reason “all lives matter” is offensive is because it was invented as a RETORT to “black lives matter.” It did not exist before the black lives matter movement, and it is not serving any purpose except to be dismissive of the black lives matter movement. The black lives matter movement started in response to the fact that, apparently, black lives are not treated as if they matter as much as others in our society. If you do not agree with their tactics or everything they say, then why not point out those specific things rather than spouting the meaningless and deliberately dismissive phrase “all lives matter?”
It seems to me the dominant culture in this country has always used violence and threat of violence to maintain their power and control. It also seems to me no social change ever really occurs without some sort of push back. I lived through the 60s in the south. There was a whole lot of violence on both sides. I know this is true because I lived it. The end result is a better society, in my opinion, though a long long ways off from where we should be by now. The problems aren’t all gone. Some problems, the dominant culture just now begins to acknowledge and it’s impossible to fix problems we don’t acknowledge exist. There is much work still to do. While I support the idea of civil disobedience and politely explaining to folks the error of their ways, it isn’t generally successful imho. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. But trying does sometimes elicit a violent reaction. I don’t really see a solution.
For me, the list in the OP, is people politely pointing out to other people the error of their ways; the polite discourse that we all hope works to successfully change society without having to reort to violence. Objecting to the list is a kind of silencing. imho. fwiw.
I think there is a connection between lists like JMU’s and the kinds of attacks I mentioned. The circulation of such lists–with university approval–creates an atmosphere where only certain opinions (usually progressive/liberal ones) are OK to voice. To voice any other opinion becomes an act of rudeness and insensitivity, and appears to be worthy of group censure. The existence of these lists gives (especially) young people the righteous sense that they have the authority to crowd-enforce such speech codes. So when someone comes along that doesn’t want to capitulate to those codes, who has the audacity to declare “all lives matter”, they are pummeled by a mob of speech code enforcers.
I think this is why we’re seeing the sad re-segregation of several universities of late. The imposition of all these speech codes doesn’t seem to be bringing the races together to dialogue. People are afraid to dialogue. Afraid that they’ll say the wrong thing and be branded a racist/sexist/homophobe/etc. Rather, the speech codes seems to be doing the very opposite of what they were (supposedly) intended to do. So, conservatives retreat to their safe spaces, and liberals to theirs. African Americans retreat to their safe spaces, and whites to theirs. Whenever those group DO interact, they capitulate to the code, but don’t really communicate. There is no meaningful interaction, just niceties. I guess I am in a unique position in that I am a black woman living in a town that is only 1% black. If I were the hypersensitive type, I would be very lonely here. On the contrary, I have meaningful, deep relationships with white/Hispanic/Asian and black friends, as well as a fabulous relationship with my white husband, partly at least because I don’t make them have to walk on eggshells around me.
(By the way, “all lives matter” isn’t offensive in any way to me. There are a lot of whites and hispanics who are harassed or killed by rogue police officers every year. Expanding the BLM logo to be more inclusive just makes it more powerful to me, rather than weakening it. I think most people who use it mean it in that way.)
From my point of view, people are afraid to change the way they dialogue. People are afraid to rationally analyze the way they interact with people they differ from and how that may affect them. People are afraid of those negative labels and rather than confronting an uncomfortable feeling, they become defensive when approached with possible solutions that encourage progression.
I don’t believe people should be pummelized by mobs, but rather when someone says “All Lives Matter” in retort to a conversation focused on a certain minority, I would ask them why they believe “All Lives Matter” should be said instead or why they feel the need to focus on another topic. I approach them open-mindedly and try to gather their values and opinions and better gauge how they came to that conclusion.
Zekesima, your ending post would bean excellent example of detraction if we were speaking of black lives.
“There are a lot of whites and hispanics who are harassed or killed by rogue police officers every year.”
Correct. A group of activists decided to create a group called Black Lives Matter after seeing how black lives didn’t matter and how it affected those they loved and their communities. That is the origin of the movement no matter how uncomfortable it makes people feel. They have expanded their focus to included people from all racial backgrounds, but “Black Lives Matter” does not mean “Only Black Lives Matter”.
To be honest, when people only bring up the tragedies of other races when black lives are focused on, I view their efforts as detracting and sometimes even ingenuous.
Zekesima, other than BLM, what other topics do you find contribute to “decrease in dialogue”? There’s a lot of focus just on this phrase, but what I’m finding is there’s such a hang up on language that progression to why the language was used cannot even be touched on.
All “Black Lives Matter” means is “Black Lives Matter too.” Because for so much of our history, and for many people even today, they haven’t mattered and don’t matter. Everybody knows already that white lives matter, and always have. And that’s why “All Lives Matter” serves only – once again – to subordinate and derail an important issue that so many people have preferred to ignore for so long.
It’s such a shame, isn’t it, that people no longer feel free to say racist, sexist, and homophobic things without being criticized for being racist, sexist, and homophobic? Doesn’t everyone realize that calling someone a racist is infinitely worse than making racist comments in the first place? Such accusations hurt people’s feelings, after all, and we wouldn’t want that!
Racists, sexists, and homophobes are soooo sensitive these days, aren’t they? Poor dears. Talk about victimology – they’re experts.
And I can assure Zekesima that if she wants to add up all the violence that various kinds of people are subjected to, “All Lives Matter” types aren’t near the top of the list. I didn’t ever hear their voices speak out about all the LGBT kids who’ve been bullied, beaten, thrown out on the streets by their parents, and murdered over the years. As one example.
Apparently, Asians are still fair game for racist behavior on a certain news network.
@zekesima you are awesome and I 100% agree with everything you are saying!!!
Please don’t twist my intent. I do not believe minority groups have a “special right” to be offended. I do believe that there are more instances for them to encounter offensive comments, precisely BECAUSE they are in the minority.
You are stating that you can’t understand why a Jewish person would be offended if someone called Channukah their “Jewish Christmas”? Is that correct?
Just because there are more Christians than Jews in this country does not mean we all should assume everyone is Christian unless specifically told otherwise.
And saying that “Jewish people currently have a comfortable life” is also a questionable line IMHO. My problem is that you are describing and engaging a whole segment of US citizens as one homogenous commodity of people. There are Jews at all income levels, Jews with professional jobs, Jews with blue collar jobs, Jews in jail, Jews struggling with addiction. Labeling “all Jews” as one thing is exactly the type of comment that this university is trying to get people to examine.
For people that have difficulty processing “black lives matter” vs “all lives matter”, you might consider campus rape. When the topic of campus rape comes up, do you reflexively dismiss it as a concern and instead say, “all rape matters”?
Yes, all rape matters. But for college students and their parents, they are specifically concerned about campus rape. To tell this group “all rape matters” is to dismiss their specific concerns as being unworthy of examination because you personally deem it so.
All lives matter and there are laws and courts and policies and ongoing efforts in place supporting that principle. Just see things like 3-strike laws, sentencing guidelines, the various innocence projects, etc. That doesn’t address the fact that there appears to be a specific issue of racial bias in policing, prosecution, and sentencing with regards to minorities. Why would any reasonable person want to say that this bias doesn’t matter? The two ideas of “all lives matter” and “black lives matter” are not mutually exclusive.
zekesima:
30. “That’s so gay/queer. That’s so retarded.”
Do you think this sort of language should be allowed, without any correction, in an elementary, middle, high school classroom? Or playground? If not, how would you handle it?
To me #30 is completely unacceptable. Am I supposed to overlook it or tell the speaker how I feel? I don’t want any children I know subjected to that sort of speech.
If we aren’t supposed to speak up, how does anything change?
If we are supposed to speak up, the list seems a better educational tool, to me, because it doesn’t single out individuals for their speech. It’s non-confrontational. imho. I would much rather not correct someone else’s children, but I will protect my own and risk offending and hurt feelings.
I’m 60. #30 is phrases that weren’t allowed by my parents when I was a child. I was taught this was unacceptable speech more than fifty years ago.
The two ideas of “all lives matter” and “black lives matter” are not mutually exclusive. (anomander)
Exactly what I’ve been trying to say.
I’m not trying to argue that the intentions of people who make such lists are bad. I am simply saying that the content of these lists can be a problem. Who has the authority to determine what is rude/insensitive and what is not? The list I included in the OP was just ONE example. There are probably hundreds of other lists out there like this one.
Here are some other banned words, phrases, and actions at college campuses:
- clapping at conferences
- spelling and grammar corrections
- using the words: “crazy”, “American”, “elderly”, “mothering”, “fathering”, “homosexual”, “illegal alien”, “homeless”, “obese”, “freshman”, “overweight”, “poor person”, “Caucasian”, “Mr. Mrs. or Ms.”, etc.
- “America is the land of opportunity”
- “There is only one race, the human race.”
- “Where are you from?”
http://listverse.com/2015/08/25/10-most-absurd-things-to-ban-on-politically-correct-college-campuses/
http://ijr.com/2015/07/379988-saying-youre-american-university-new-hampshire-can-now-get-trouble/
http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/22839/
So the way to keep free speech is to not allow people to say some words and phrases are rude, etc? Free speech protects you from legal prosecution, not from all repercussions.
I have two girls (hence the screen name, lol) who are very careful not to cause pain to others. Teaching them that it’s ok to stand up for themselves and tell other kids they are being rude has been a thing we’ve worked on for years.
IMO a list like this does open up discussion.
This is only bothersome if the questioner is really trying to ask “what is your ethnic ancestry?” but persists on asking “where are you really from?” and similar variants even when given an answer of a place within the US for “where are you from?”.
Similarly, whether the use of many of the other words can be bothersome is context dependent.
You are free to say what you want. However, do not be surprised if some types of word usage leads other people judge you in an unfavorable manner.
IMO a list like this does open up discussion. (mom2twogirls)
It seems to me that it is doing the exact opposite on the college campuses. Forming relationships across racial and other barriers becomes fraught with too much peril. Better to retreat to one’s safe space (safe from offending others, from being offended oneself, and from being accused of racism/sexism, etc.)…again, leading to the re-segregation of the college campus.
I’m afraid I just disagree with you based on what you have posted so far, though I am doing my best to understand your viewpoint.
In the not too distant past existed a homogeneous dominant culture that got to say whatever they wanted because those outside that group didn’t have the power to object. The world changed. Enough people see this change as a good thing that standards of acceptable speech have changed. Society has always exerted pressure to conform to accepted norms… The accepted norms are just changing. This has benefited my children. So I’m glad.
If you think changing norms on college campuses are disadvantaging your child, I would be interested in reading about it. Or from any other parent or student who finds this to be the case.
adding: I’m sorry not to know the answer, but are your kids in college yet, Zekesima? Mine are long finished, but I still have nieces, nephews, and young cousins in college, with whom I spend holidays.
None in college yet, but my oldest may be starting at UA next Fall. The other four are 8 to 15.
To answer one of your questions, I guess I am particularly bothered by what I see happening at the colleges of late and I’m wondering how my politically conservative, biracial senior is going to fare in that environment.
If what you “see happening at the colleges of late” is what you are reading in the media - I don’t think you are getting an accurate sense of the situation on college campuses. But maybe you have firsthand knowledge?
I spend a fair amount of time on several college campuses, and hang out with professors from all over the country. It seems to me the media reports have very little to do with reality.
I hope your son is able to make campus visits and talk with lots of students before choosing his college. I insisted my sons go visit with student groups and get their perspective on campus culture before making a final decision.
good luck
adding: no college students I know would be offended by the list in the OP.