The problem with large, public state universities-

<p>Today’s “large public state schools” take great prestige in the fact that they rank amongst the finest universities in the world, and that their rankings are upto par with prestigious Ivy League schools. In a general context, they are seen as very affordable, highly ranked institutions that offer an undergraduate academic experience comparable to that of a private Ivy League school. However, there are TONS of factors in why the public shouldn’t be deceived by the image of the school and rankings:</p>

<p>**1. Research Focus: **</p>

<p>Believe it or not, most rankings out there aren’t really ranking the quality of an undergraduate education. They’re ranking the level, rigor and quality of research at the school. Consequently, a school with “good research status” can be thought to offer a good undergraduate experience, and for the most part, that is true.
However, professors and TA’s tend to focus a LOT more time to their research than actually care about teaching the students. The primary reason they were hired is probably not their teaching skills, but their research interests; teaching is a secondary venture and the one which they will tend to ignore more.
There’s pressure on them to research and publish papers, but not so much to encourage a confused undergraduate student to understand a concept.</p>

<p>2. Student Body Size:</p>

<p>In schools of 40,000+ undergraduates (you know what schools I’m talking about), it is very, very easy for freshmen to feel completely lost when they start college (especially the out-of-state students). It is extremely discouraging to see others with circles of friends and then see yourself not fitting anywhere.
The thing that stings is that in SUCH a large school, there is a very high probability that there is some group of people out there whom you “click” perfectly with and would fit right in, but how on earth do you find them? Rely on random chance that they’ll be in one of your classes? Hope that they’ll show up at the club meeting kickoff you’re going to? Wish that they just happen to live on your floor next year, or are randomly assigned as your roommates? Lack of social inclusion can be very disheartening and affects motivation to succeed academically.
Moreover, this has an academic implication as well. With over 40,000 undergraduates, the general classes (math/chem/physics/bio) tend to have large lectures with ~200 students and discussion sections with inexperienced TA’s. It is very hard to do well in a large class like this, and just imagine exposing an incoming “hopeful” engineering major to gigantic lectures of Calculus, Chemistry, Physics and Computer Science. It seems like the professor doesn’t care much about how well you do, the TA’s don’t really know the information as well as the professors (most of the time, they’re completely out of the loop about class structure, etc. - not enough communication with the professor at all).</p>

<p>In smaller schools (~5,000 undergraduates), there is a MUCH greater sense of community and small class sizes directly correlate with better performance (obvious factors).</p>

<p>I’ve attended two large public, state universities (40,000+ student body size) and have noticed this pattern across both of them. I have also attended a much smaller school and the potential for success at the smaller school is infinitely better. I’m not trying to bias anything here, but I believe that those people who aren’t total gregarious charmers who are somehow able to befriend every single person they come across will find it much better at a much smaller school - where the professors care, where there is a much larger sense of community and incentive to do well academically. Overall, I think people seem much happier at smaller schools. I’ve counted at least 7 friends I know (across both the large state schools I attended) who transferred out within a year because of how much they hated it.
The transition from high-school, where you know almost everyone (at least in your grade) and teachers are motivating you to do well, to college, where you’re just a lost fish in the sea and no-one seems to care what you’re doing or how well you do - is NOT easy at all and should not be overlooked when making a decision on whether to attend a large school or a small school.</p>

<p>3. The status of an undergraduate degree</p>

<p>In the end, it all ends up drivel. Undergraduate degrees are beginning to lose the significance and status they once held - if you consider how much people specialize in industry after an undergraduate degree, the piece of paper saying you went to school at “XXX University” for four years is nearly worthless. Why spend so much in tuition at a place where you’re not gonna like it for four entire years?
Just go somewhere you’ll fit in and be happy, get a degree and then specialize in something that really interests you. I’ve seen math graduate students with undergrad degrees in philosophy, people who got accepted to pharmacy school with degrees in English & Creative Writing and engineering majors who are pursuing MFA degrees.
The point is, don’t stress out from all the pressure of going to a big, good school and getting a great undergraduate degree.</p>

<p>Just remember, in the end, we’re all just talking primates on a sphere rotating in empty space. So go somewhere where you’ll be happy and do something you like. Your time on this planet is limited. Make it worthwhile.</p>

<p>Those are good points, also add that it may be easier to form relationships with professors in universities with a smaller student body.</p>

<p>It’s easy to make a big school small, but impossible to make a small school big. I’ve personally loved every aspect of my experience at a big state school. AxeBlack is just one guy with one opinion, don’t let this sway you.</p>

<p>The research thing can be true, but if you’re in a major where you’re expected to do undergraduate research, sometimes going to a school where there is little to none can pose a problem. My bio professor has different bio grad students come in occasionally to talk about their research and one thing she always asks them is when and how they started undergraduate research (and they ALL did). The ones who went to big state schools have pretty straight forward answers - “I emailed someone and they let me in their lab.” Then there’s the other ones who usually say something like “I went to a small school with very little research, so I had to try to convince a lab at a large state school to take me on, even though I had to drive the X miles to get there and could only be there once a month.”</p>

<p>All I know is that I’ve been at a small high-school for four years and I hate it here. There’s no lack of “sense of community” at any big state school as far as the Saturday student sections can tell us, and anything too small will inevitably be too cliquish. </p>

<p>The weight of a 4-year degree isn’t going to change whether you go to a big or small school. It’s all about how they rank, and it’s extremely important, especially if you plan on going to grad or professional school, not to graduate with debt.</p>

<p>Ultimately, the onus is on the individual to make something out of his or her college experience. </p>

<p>Finally, how many people would pick any given public school over an Ivy anyway? Let’s make it clear that we are talking about the “average” small school, not the top tier.</p>

<p>I agree with the OP. Which is why I chose a <em>small</em> public state university who’s OOS tuition is currently less expensive than tuition at my own public state university back home. :P</p>

<p>I couldn’t imagine going to a small school and also most of my friends go to small schools and they say it sucks. I like going to my highly ranked large public university because all of the recruiters come here, big greek life, more friends, theres so many restaurants and places open until 4AM, more clubs, and more stuff to do in general.</p>

<p>I think undergraduate education is what you make of it. Great professors are awesome, but you can’t blame them if you’re not getting much out of a class. Ranking schools based on research activity is important for those considering graduate school.</p>

<p>However, small LACs can also provide good experience. My LAC made sure to introduce research to every student in some way, and had many independent research opportunities to prep for grad school. </p>

<p>As for student body, that can’t really be used to deter people. Some people love large communities. Others don’t. I don’t, so I did very well at a small LAC and I loved it. I know people at my LAC who probably would’ve done better at a larger school. </p>

<p>I agree that the large freshman lecture courses are a pain, and that’s the main reason I preferred a small school. But again, you only get what you make of it. That usually changes as you move up deeper into your major anyway, when the course material becomes more interesting and relevant.</p>

<p>I agree 100% that students should go to a school with a good fit. There is no reason to be miserable for 4 years - if the large one seems cheaper than the small one, keep searching for other small schools that are more affordable or offer more aid. Don’t just jump for the “obvious” choice.</p>

<p>Regarding #2,</p>

<p>The whole “you’ll fit in better in a smaller school” argument that often get’s thrown around only works if you already click with the demographic of students who attend that college. But what if you don’t? What if the atmosphere that was perfect for your 17 year-old self who went on a college visit, but not the 20+ year-old self you grow into?</p>

<p>The benefit of larger schools offer is diversity. To some extent, no matter who you are you will find a group of people and a place on campus that feels like home. And it’s very fluid. Even when/if you change, there will be some place you can find a new fit. Do you have to do some legwork for yourself? Um, yeah. Is it worth it? Definitely.</p>

<p>Beyond that, I agree with NovaLynnx. An undergraduate degree is totally worth what you make it. Can you sit on your bum, do the bare minimum and make it out with a degree? Sure. But you can do that just as easily at a smaller school.</p>

<p>An Honors program within a mega flagship university, FTW. The best of all worlds.</p>

<p>I agree completely with bigtenchamp. I thought I wanted a small school. I didn’t fit in with the school’s demographic (1400 students) and outgrew that small feeling. I now attend a state school of 14,000+ and sometimes I wish it was bigger like 40,000+. The small school was good to get me adjusted at 18. Now a sophomore I am able to handle a larger school.</p>

<p>I like my enormous school. I would hate a small school. Different strokes and all that.</p>

<p>I went to a tiny high school. It had about 120 students. There were a lot of advantages to that but there were also a lot of disadvantages.</p>

<p>I now go to a large state university (about 20,000 undergrads, I think) There are advantages and disadvantages to it.</p>

<p>A lot of people assume that if you go to a large state university, you’ll be stuck in huge classes, but this isn’t necessarily true. I had one class this semester with more than 25 people and that was my Statistics Class. It had 200. If I didn’t understand the material, there was a free Statistics Tutoring Center on campus and I could always email the professor or ask her questions after class. I never needed help because the class is really easy, but if I wanted it or needed it, I could get it.</p>

<p>One of the disadvantages of going to a small school is that you only get to meet so many people and you’re kind of stuck. I really like the fact that at my current university, I’m always meeting new people. I’ve made a lot of friends while here and it’s not that difficult to. You talk to people in your classes, you join clubs, you meet people on your hallway. If you can’t make friends in a large university, it’s your own fault. There are a LOT more opportunities to make friends and on top of that, you can make friends with a much more varied group of people. You don’t even have to party to make friends, because Lord know I don’t party. I just have become friends with people in my classes, my major, clubs I’m in, on my hallway, etc.</p>

<p>The research thing can be true, but you can always go to RMP to find a good professor.</p>

<p>I thought you were gonna say college sports.</p>

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<p>Now imagine paying $60000/year at a private school for the same experience, but with crappy departments in those areas… true story</p>

<p>1- That research focus is great if you’re going into a field that requires a lot of research. If not, then you’re probably not in a major that requires a lot of research and therefore your teachers will be more focused on teaching than research. For example, if you’re a chem major, you want teachers that are focused on research since that’s what you’re going to be doing a lot of. If you’re an English major then you don’t want profs who are focused on “research” and they’re probably not going to be. </p>

<p>2- You only get lost if you let yourself get lost. You can always make a large school feel small. Many large universities offer residential colleges or first year experiences. Or you can join clubs and orgs and such to make the school feel much smaller. However, if you’re at a small school and you don’t fit in with a few groups then you may just be SOL as the options are more limited. And you can get to know your profs- you just have to put in the effort, but that’s life. </p>

<p>3- What does that have to do with the size of the school?</p>

<p>“I went to a tiny high school. It had about 120 students.”</p>

<p>This killed me, sorry. My school was K-12 and had about 100 students total. The high school was 40. My graduating class was 4. </p>

<p>I can’t imagine going to a big school anyway. My current school feels too big because there’s a maximum of 30 students in every class. I like knowing my teachers and classmates personally, and I just don’t get that here, or really, at any other school (as far as I can imagine). </p>

<p>My perfect school would have classes with 5-15 people in them.</p>

<p>Whoa, that’s really small. How could they offer a good variety of classes with such a small class size? My graduating class had about 500 people in it, so the entire high school had about 2000… though it was actually bigger than that when I was a freshman, as a new high school opened up about 20 minutes away. I can’t imagine going anywhere much smaller than that, and now I go to a large public state university with nearly 50,000 students and I love it. I guess just different people do better in different environments…</p>

<p>@PRiNCESSMAHiNA It’s rare that I find people who went to schools smaller than mine, but either way you look at it, they’re both considered tiny compared to a normal high school. I know in my county at least, we have seven of the 12 largest high schools in the state. One of our high schools has a freshman campus a sophomore-junior campus and a senior campus because it’s so big. It’s football stadium is the third largest in the state aside from Clemson and Carolina. Their graduating class was around 750 this year… which is more than my entire school k4-12 (less than 500).</p>

<p>I’m used to classes having 5-10 students in them, but honestly, I don’t mind my classes in college having about 25. I sit in the front row anyways, so I’ve never once noticed my classes being any bigger… even my 200 person class.</p>

<p>I think the thing is that there is no one size fits all school, but I personally am of the mind-set that you’re much more likely to be able to make a big school feel small than a small school feel big.</p>

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<p>That’s true. A big school can be broken into units: my friends from math, my friends from a club, etc. You can’t do anything about increasing the number of people at a small school.</p>