<p>Distraction or not; the American voter will be affected by his involvement in Obama’s campaign. Most voters realize that people ARE INDEED affected by the company they keep. If Obama was smart; he would give Wright a couple thousand dollars; tell him to go on vacation some place remote; and tell him not to show up until Christmas. The typical American vote has a short attention span. If Wright isn’t in the picture, the voters will forget about him in a few weeks. Every time Wright opens his mouth in front of reporters, he hurts Obama. That is a fact. </p>
<p>Those who think Wright isn’t or shouldn’t even be an issue and that Obama is doing fine; are Obama Fans. Just like some think that those who complain about Wright would NEVER vote for Obama anyway. The same things can be said for the Obama “FANS”. These people are going to vote for Obama no matter what. Even if he was convicted of drug use and child abuse, their opinion of him won’t change. </p>
<p>The voters that matter here are the independent and the conservative democrats. Without both groups; Obama CAN NOT WIN. He has to prove to the independents and conservative democrats that he isn’t as far left or as radical as some are making him out to be. People know what and Who Clinton is. People know what and who McCain is. The independents and conservative democrats don’t know who Obama is.</p>
<p>Hillary can lie, cheat and steal, and her supporters don’t seem to care. That is what baffles me. Somehow, she is immune to any standard of ethics, because people know “what and who she is” ?.. Can anyone provide any rational explanation for that?</p>
<p>It seems that many in the Democratic party are finally coming to their senses and questioning such logic. Most superdelegates have been favoring Obama, even with her win in PA.</p>
<p>I disagree Christcorp. The devil that you know may not always be the safe or best choice.! :eek:</p>
<p>“Distraction or not; the American voter will be affected by his involvement in Obama’s campaign.”</p>
<p>Agreed, simply because it is another reminder that Obama is Black. But McCain went out and actively sought Hagee’s endorsement, and the things Hagee says are far, far more incendiary. Does McCain think that all American Catholics are “held in thrall to the whore of Babylon?” Why doesn’t he specifically address the issue?</p>
<p>Mini; you just made my point. When was the last time that Hagee was in public talking about McCain, his support for him, or anything similar??? If Wright was to disappear, this would not be an issue with the voters 2-3 months from now. Instead however, HE won’t let it die. Obama’s got to be to the point where he’s going to back-hand him upside his head and tell him to go sit down and color.</p>
<p>Obama has so many things going against him in this election. He doesn’t need Wright “Trying to help” or clear his own name. If Obama wins the Democratic nominee; which I don’t think he is guaranteed yet, he is going to be in for a real fight. Clinton leads in Super-Delegates. If they decide to somehow include Florida, she will also be leading in the popular vote. And according to MOST polls; Hillary leads McCain 50-41%; while most polls show Obama as barely breaking even with him.</p>
<p>Personally; I believe that if Obama gets the nomination, McCain gets the presidency. If Clinton gets the nomination; it’s a 50/50 crap shoot. Believe what you want. So many of Obama fans think people dog Obama because they are afraid that Obama will beat McCain. The truth is, most conservatives in the country; republican and democrats; believe that Obama is too far to the left. That there’s no way they will vote for him. Hillary is the one people believe can beat McCain,.</p>
<p>Well it’s a good thing we have you looking out for all of our interests then, because we’re obviously too irrational to form a real opinion of a candidate.</p>
<p>Or maybe just irrational if we form an opinion you don’t agree with?</p>
<p>The irony of one of the most consistent and unchanging bitter anti-Clinton posters on the board deriding her supporters for being irrational is very rich.</p>
<p>Here’s a hint: If you bothered to read the posts from people who support Clinton on this board instead of just banging out yet another of your repetitive and boring anti-Clinton posts, you would realize that many of us understand very well what her faults are, yet still think she’s a better candidate.</p>
<p>Christcorp: The Democratic Party doesn’t care about winning the Presidential election in November. They’ve only had one winning candidate in the last 36 years. They are used to losing.</p>
<p>“Mini; you just made my point. When was the last time that Hagee was in public talking about McCain, his support for him, or anything similar???”</p>
<p>Wright was in the news because the media dogged him. As far as I am aware, he hasn’t even endorsed Obama. Ayers (who is a personal friend) I am pretty sure hasn’t, and would be very unlikely to.</p>
<p>The media decided not to dog Hagee, who holds far more sway with far more voters, and whose comments are far beyond anything Wright uttered. McCain got a free pass.</p>
<p>mini: I agree and am mystified by all the self-righteous hand-wringing over Wright while no mention is made of Hagee, whose comments I consider roundly worse in every way than Wright’s. Would any McCain supporters here care to clear up what they feel the difference is between the unacceptable and horrible Wright and the apparently not-so-bad Hagee?</p>
<p>Christcorp, you’re right about Pastor Hagee, of course. (And mini explained why.)</p>
<p>I feel for the poor pastor. I really do. He’s the victim of media bias. He deserves equal time! I’ll be waiting for O’Reilly’s 14/17 straight Talking Points in a row questioning the pastor’s patriotism. Maybe he’ll even name the pastor a “pinhead”! Then Hannity can have a go at him, through the fair and balanced commentary of Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove. Night after night after night (and in the afternoons on the radio). Only… Pastor Hagee might then feel obliged to defend himself and his church, and I believe the by-then smeared-by-association McCain is too much of a gentleman to back-hand him upside his head and tell him to go sit down and color (though I would pay money to see that ).</p>
<p>1 of 42, while not a McCain supporter per se (I was all for him 8 years ago, now I’m not so sure), the main difference is that McCain hasn’t sat in Hagee’s church for 20 years listening to him preach. Yeah, it’s cheesy seeking the endorsement, but illustrative of the stranglehold the religious right has on the GOP. fwiw, the evangelicals don’t trust McCain and think he’s insincere in wanting their endorsements, which of course he is. Obama needed the political blessing of the black community in south side Chicago, so he joined Trinity UCC. It has paid off for him locally, but seems to be blowing up in his face nat’lly.</p>
<p>McCain could never get the GOP nomination w/o a certain degree of sucking up to the evangelicals. The fact that he was never an active member of such a congregation tempers it for me somewhat, but then W wasn’t a member but bought the message it seems. As a voter I’m looking for someone smack in the middle with as little religious agenda as possible, and certainly w/o some fool notion that we need trouble in the middle east to bring on the second coming and the rapture.</p>
<p>If you read what I said, you can tell it is NOt another boring anti-Clinton post. I raised some questions / issues that YOU may disagree with, but that doesn’t make me irrational. Your post sounds a bit irrational to me, failing to answer or adress any points , but rather shooting the messenger.
Bitter? Not bitter at all.
I don’t carry a gun, bury my alleged bitterness in God, or swig whiskey either. ;)</p>
<p>I think if you’d been in his church for 20 years, you’d end up saying, “He’s one heck of a dedicated man, with a passion and a commitment to his community and his country and to his congregation that goes far beyond anything I could possible experience elsewhere, and I hope he stays around for another 20.”</p>
<p>You certainly might feel that way Mini. Oprah didn’t; she left. Anyway, people view getting an endorsement different from joining and staying (i think). Plus, the UCC has Congregationalist roots and my understanding is that each congregation seeks its own pastor and chooses its own path. There is no preset dogma outside basic belief in Christianity. So if however you characterize Wright’s church, one can assume the members buy into it fully and are not just killing time til the next minister gets assigned. Plus Wright was there for 36 years and single handedly built it up from less than 100 members to over 8,000. His is the dominant influence. Joining and staying in Trinity UCC means way more emotional and intellectual investment than just getting someone to endorse you so you can get a nomination.</p>
<p>fwiw - I’m sick to death of the evangelical nuttiness, which is why I want to vote Democratic this time, but I’m also sick of getting whiplash from being seesawed back and forth between two extremes. Enough with the extremes!!!</p>
<p>1sokkermom: That post was exactly the kind of repetitive barb that you post in almost every thread that HRC might be even tangentially associated with.</p>
<p>To say your post “[raises] questions” is an astounding half-truth. It would be like me posting about Obama being an al-Quaeda sleeper agent of Muslim faith, asking why people support him, and then throwing up my hands when people point out I’m just spouting crap. Give it a break. All you’re doing is further reducing your credibility on the Clinton vs. Obama issue, which is already pretty low because you never seem to have anything new to say about it other than various forms of “I hate Hillary she’s a liar etc. etc. etc.” We already know that.</p>
<p>“o if however you characterize Wright’s church, one can assume the members buy into it fully and are not just killing time til the next minister gets assigned.”</p>
<p>I would NEVER attend a church where I bought into everything the minister said. I’d be bored to tears! I would want my pastor to be challenging my beliefs and my way of seeing the world so that I could be a better person. </p>
<p>It’s one of the reasons I am a Friend. We are all uncomfortable. We are all ministers. And we all challenge each other. But short of that, Pastor Wright sounds great to me.</p>
<p>You guys are going for style not substance.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It IS all about himself. A news commentator made the point why he didn’t wait a while longer. Hillary just scored a big win in Penn, he could have waited another week minimum for Obama to catch his footing in Indiana to stem Hillary’s tide. Noooo, it’s all about me, baby!</p></li>
<li><p>Whites and society at large has to do all the attitude adjustment. He
mention NOTHING about this being a two-sided road. Blacks can’t continue to hold grudge against whites. For every redneck bigot, there’s a hundred whites bending backwd to help blacks. No a single word about blacks needing attitude change too. Aint nobody keeping you down. In his arrogance, white folks are the one to NEED to change. What is it about blacks having this sense of entitlement ?</p></li>
<li><p>For a supposed man of God, he said little of God and JC.</p></li>
<li><p>e correctly pointed out blacks let their right brain (emotion…etc) drive their lives as if that’s all’s thats needed. He also correctly pointed out the function of the left brain - analytical, logical…etc. Maybe blacks in America canbe more successful if they exercise the other part of the brain power they possessed ? No, Rev Wright is content with leaving it at “different but not deficient”. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Rev Wright is egotistical, self-serving, acts like a cult figure and his not-so-subtle chants of changes gonna come (Whites need to change, blacks are entitled) is racist in thin disguise. Wright is spitting at our faces. I am puzzled that not more of you highly-educated folks see through this.</p>
<p>I honestly don’t understand this obsession with Wright and his comments. First of all, he isn’t running for anything and is a real diversion from the serious issues confronting our country. I know many people who attend Wright’s church. They are highly educated, professional and not crazy or cult-like at all. Trinty is a powerful church that does much in the Black community. I think outsiders can’t understand this. I’ve heard Wright preach and he can seem over the top for people who don’t understand his style. Frankly, much of what he says I definitely believe. I think it’s extremely difficult for most whites to discuss or confront issues of race. In all of the zillions of commentaries I’ve heard, virtually none addressed his point that you should treat people the way you want to be treated. Also, is there some statement that Oprah gave that I missed about Wright’s church?? I think she’s just gone off into another direction religiously that probably has nothing to do with Wright or his church. She’s into “the secret” and has moved away from the traditional church. I’ve never heard from anyone I know that she left because of Wright. It’s very sad that a great candidate like Obama might go down because of Wright. Obama does not agree with Wright. There are many reasons that have nothing to do with Wright that kept him at Trinity. I hope we can move on and deal with serious issues. We need to deal with the economy, education, the war,the outrageous oil prices, etc. This over the top concentration on Wright is crazy. Cut the cameras off of this guy!</p>
<p>Tough sell. Barry sat in those pews and nodded his head for 20 years. Wright married Barry. Baptized his children. Barry lifted the title of one of his fictional autobiographies from a Wright sermon. And, donated $26,000 to Wright’s ministry last year. Good luck trying to sell that Barry doesn’t agree with his unabashedly racist spiritual mentor.</p>
Somehow, she is immune to any standard of ethics, because people know “what and who she is” ?.. Can anyone provide any rational explanation for that?</p>
).</p>