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<p>How many people sit in pews of Roman Catholic churches for their whole lives, and disagree with what the priest (or the church as a whole) is saying? In my job, I encounter lots of them… LOTS. They are the same priests that marry them, baptize their children, confirm their children, administer the sacraments to them in time of crisis, etc. </p>
<p>I thought our country went through this decades ago with the Kennedys - the fear of the pope ruling our country vicariously.</p>
<p>It’s not the fear of religion, terwtt, but anger toward blacks who express their anger at the inequalities and injustices in our country. If blacks express anger and resentment toward whites for the injustices they feel, they’re labled racist. The fact that blacks have sufffered discrimination from white people, and still do to a large degree, since the founding of our country, doesn’t seem to make any difference to some people. If you are my age, you remember the civil rights movement, and honestly, it doesn’t seem that long ago. But some people seem to think that since “everything is OK now, :rolleyes:” the black leaders have no reason, and seem to feel that they have no right, to remind people of our history, and some are especially offended if they are reminded in angry tones.</p>
<p>I agree with you asap, but the argument that everyone seems to be using is that they are worried that the pastor’s extreme beliefs will influence Obama’s presidency. At least that’s what they say, but it may just be a cover up for their fear of having a black president.</p>
<p>While I don’t remember too much about the civil rights movement, I definitely remember the subtle comments and nuances of behavior from my own adult family members in response to desegregation of schools. I remember having to come to terms with my grandmother who was very racist, and some of my family members challenging me on it because my behavior was insulting to her.</p>
<p>Their thinking is simple.-- Blacks leaders, like Wright, who express anger with whites about this county’s discrimination and inequality are racists. Obama is close to this pastor, therefore he must also be a racist.— The fact that there is validity to the feelings behind the expression and anger in some black communities is something the powers that be don’t want to discuss. Instead, at best, we get denial.</p>
<p>And then there’s the whole “He’s un-American” from some, because Wright criticized American policies. Therefore, Obama’s patriotism is “fair game.” It’s sick, actually.</p>
<p>But this country is sick right now, thanks to 8 years of Bush, so it may work.</p>
<p>Let me get this straight. Barry’s preacher says that black kids’ and white kids’ brains work differently? </p>
<p>Barry’s preacher says that the US government developed the AIDS virus to kill black folk?</p>
<p>And you accuse me of being a racist?</p>
<p>Yeah, that’ll get a lot of votes in November.</p>
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Hmmm. Seems like James Watson might have said a similar thing. White and Black people <em>think</em> differently [not that simply noticing physical differences in speed/body fat/muscle mass is non-controversial]. Now that’s dangerous territory.</p>
<p>Are you asking me, ID? I didn’t accuse you of being a racist. i said that people accuse Wright of being one, and therefore, Obama by association.</p>
<p>And I don’t think that whites who can’t see the discrimination toward blacks that is still with us in 2008 are necessarily racist. Just not very aware, or perhaps living on a different planet. I don’t understand it, but I have too many friends who actually believe we have reached racial equality long ago to think they’re all evil and racist. No, just sheltered.</p>
<p>interesteddad, you are one hundred percent wrong about saying that Obama sat nodding in Wright’s church. You have no clue WHY he was there. It could have been good politics. Within the Black community (and elsewhere) there are very important and influential churches that people attend becasue of things that have NOTHING to do with the minister. I attended such a church. I disgreed with the perspective of the minister on MANY things but the church was larger than him. I enjoyed the congregation, the programs that existed prior to his appointment and the historical importance of the church. Honestly, I wish people could understand this. And, the financial contribution that Obama gave, I’d be willing to bet was for a specific program or programs of the church. It wasn’t a contribution to Wright. I feel people who had no intention of voting for Obama will simply use this Wright diversion as an excuse not to vote for him. Wright is truly insignificant to Obama’s beliefs on race and America.</p>
<p>I honestly don’t understand this obsession with Wright and his comments. First of all, he isn’t running for anything and is a real diversion from the serious issues confronting our country.</p>
<p>What can be more important than trying to understand who a relatively unknown person who is running for the President of the United States is? Obamas intelligence, charisma, poise, and inclination not to play identity politics are attractive qualities that have gotten him far. But he is making a big mistake when he tries to dismiss the publics legitimate interest in trying to figure out who he is as nothing more than a distraction. In fact, it is arrogant and only reinforces the notion that he feels that he is above it all and that people should just accept his soaring rhetoric and the biography that he presented of himself in his books. He can blame Charlie Gibson for asking the questions, or Hillary for piling on (although she is shrewdly pulling back on that today), but the fact is he has only been on the national scene for about three years and his record as a state senator is fairly thin. Some people might not find his deep association with the Reverend Wright to be disturbing, but many do and it is fair game to explore it. It is also fair game to explore his disingenuous but oft repeated talking point that he wasnt at church that day, as if he has no clue who his spiritual mentor of 20 years is or what he believes and preaches. At least when Hillary lies, shes good at it.</p>
<p>Obama forged his political career in the milieu of hard left Chicago politics. His wife, born and raised in the neighborhood, seemed to really mean it when she said that this was the first time in her adult life she felt proud of this country. While some might not care or might even admire that he launched his state senatorial campaign in Bill Ayers’ and Bernadette Dohrns living room, others might. When Obama dismisses this issue by suggesting that his only link to Ayers is that they served on a board together when there is evidence to suggest otherwise, and that Ayers bad acts occurred 40 years ago and are therefore irrelevant, when Ayers gave a recorded interview as recently as last year suggesting that he is unrepentant, Obamas credibility and judgments are once again at issue.</p>
<p>In his pay-back tour, Wright has implied more than once, bitingly, that Obama is distancing himself from Wright and his divine revelations about government terrorism only because he has to as a politician in order to get elected. Is Wright simply being delusional? Did Obama feign more agreement with his pastor than actually existed because he has daddy issues? Does Obama actually buy into Wright’s perspectives as many posters here apparently do? The public has a right to know.</p>
<p>And on the subject of double standards for black children vs. white Bostonian or Texan presidents, the Reverend Wright does not understand the difference between grammar/syntax and diction. Just as no one criticized JFK for saying pawk the caw in Hahvahd Yawd, no one criticizes African-American children for speaking in their regional accents. What gets criticized is the notion that black children arent capable of learning standard English grammar or syntax, or shouldnt be expected to because it is somehow oppressive and forcing them to speak white English. Even Jesse Jackson condemned the Oakland school boards resolution to legitimize Ebonics as a language to be promoted in schools, calling it an unacceptable surrender. If Obama spoke in Ebonics, he would not have gotten very far in presidential politics, but he is free to speak in accented standard English, whether the accent is Kansan, Kenyan, Hawaiian, Indonesian, upper Westside Manhattan, Cambridgian (Mass), or Chicagoan.</p>
<p>If I were African American I don’t think I’d appreciate Wright telling me that ALL African American children learn differently. Why aren’t they upset about that?</p>
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<p>The black experience in America? So, every African-American that lives in the USA has the same - or even a similar - experience? Ehh… I would prefer that people do not predict my destiny based solely on my race.</p>
<p>FarmDad - you are right on the money. Good posts. Thanks for taking the time to write all that.</p>
<p>Trying to understand Obama & who he IS really, we don’t have much to go on. Not much of a record (esp given that he voted “present” so often rather than actually taking a stand on an issue) and he hasn’t really come out in any of his speeches and said, “This is what I believe”. </p>
<p>We have a few actions from which to try to draw conclusions:
<ul>
<li><p>His book title was taken from a Wright sermon & the book was DEDICATED to him. (Are we to conclude that Wright is someone very significant in his life?). </p></li>
<li><p>Has a long-term association with a church - ok, maybe the philosphies and teachings of that church will give us insight into the guy… (Yikes!)</p>
<ul>
<li>Uh… What else has the guy actually done that let’s us know who he is & what he’s all about? I mean, he’s trying to be our LEADER - the leader of ALL Americans. Is this someone who REPRESENTS US? Who is he?</li>
<li>He gives these grandiose speeches, but all of us are looking for something about him - something REAL with which we connect. The grand rhetoric is great, but what is he TELLING us beyond “I have command of the English language”. <em>Hope</em> for what? What is his VISION? <em>Yes we can</em> do what? What does he want to DO? And HOW will he do it?</li>
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<p>Obama hasn’t given us much to go on. Therefore the focus falls on the other people who are significant to him to give us clues. Are his wife’s comments relative to what he believes? (Do we want people REPRESENTING us who think “America is a mean country” and they’ve never been proud of America??).</p>
<p>Or will Obama distance himself from his wife’s comments because “that’s what politicians do”? (According to Wright).</p>
<p>Yes, the people have scant info to try to get a clear understanding of this guy who wants to be our president. We have looked to him specifically, but now the circle of examination has grown because he himself has given us so little. That’s how and why all these other people (Ayers, Rezco, et.al.) have been put under the microscope too. </p>
<p>If Obama would fill in all the blanks, the other stuff wouldn’t matter as much.</p>
<p>P.S. Did y’all notice that Wright said he was open to being Vice-President?? What conclusions are we to draw from that?</p>
<p>I am sorry, but I truly believe Wright is so ticked at Obama for calling him the crazy uncle we disagree with, but love that he is purposely sandbagging his election. Wright had a long time to sit and stew about this and he created his plan. </p>
<p>Notice when he was asked about if Obama was in the pews and spoke to him about the rhetoric, Wright didn’t give a true answer. All Wright had to say was, yes, Obama spoke to me in disagreement with what I said. Had he done that it would have been a vindication of Obama, by saying I am a pastor and will be one on Jan. 21st., then letting the sentence dropp from there was throwing a direct hit at Obama. By saying he had white ministers who called in support and said they told me I am a man of faith, and knew how to forgive and Obama is a politician, gave the fuel to the republicans. Remember, one leg of Obama’s campaign is he is not the typical politician, Wright who Obama has said he has a personal relationship with, jus said he is the typical politician.</p>
<p>“Why aren’t they upset about that?”</p>
<p>I guess they didn’t check with you before deciding what they ought to get upset about.</p>
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<p>So, you are saying that Obama attended his church for cynical political expediency?</p>
<p>Tell me something I don’t already know. The man’s entire life has been about cynical political expediency. Always running for the next election. That’s why he has no record of accomplishment. That’s why he’s hip-deep in the corruption of Chicago politics.</p>
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<p>Can you imagine if Bill Clinton had attended a racist church in Arkansas, whose preacher spoke of white supremacy. And then Clinton tried to wriggle out of it by saying that he wasn’t actually there for any cross-burnings?</p>
<p>^^^ I concur with interesteddad</p>
<p>Are you saying that he used the church to get votes? If so, that would upset me more than sitting in the pew, especially coming from a man who states we have to change the political atmosphere. That comment makes no sense since it goes against his reason to vote for him…we need to change how Washington works, is one of his stump speeches.</p>
<p>I also do find it interesting that people are willing to give him a pass on this, but took GW out to the shed for giving a speech at that university (can’t remember the name) during his 04 campaign. Giving a speech is different than attending the university</p>
<p>No, I’m not saying he went to the church to get votes. He became involved in this church because of his work as a community organizer. I can clearly understand the advantages of being in THE church that is key in the community. His attendance probably was a result of the people in the church as opposed to Wright. Everyone knows who knows Wright knows that he is like a shock jock. I think that people who are now using Wright as a reason not to support Obama are ones who weren’t going to support him anyway. This just gives them a reason to support that reason. That’s fine to support other candidates. I just think that not supporting Obama because of Wright is bogus in the extreme. It’s very clear that Wright is deliberatly attempting to hurt and undermine Obama even when Obama refused to denounce him as a person. Most whites live in such a different world from people of color, particularly blacks. We have vastly different histories and while whites can jump up and down waving the flag and celebrating this country, there are many of us who got what should have been a birthright through protests,marches, Civil Rights legislation, etc. I am a product of government mandated segregated schools (as is Wright). It has been a short half century since the Brown decision and it wasn’t implemented for decades laters which resulted in massive white flight and has left urban schools in ruins. I could go on and on but I won’t. It enrages me that somehow so many in our country have no clue the impact that racist laws - that were FEDERALLY mandated have resulted in a huge lag in wealth of Blacks (jobs we couldn’t have, schools we couldn’t attend, neighborhoods we couldn’t live in). Blacks couldn’t even buy life insurance because our lives were not thought to be worth anything. Don’t get me started.</p>
<p>Given that Obama seemed stumped yesterday when someone asked him to describe what scripture he relies on in times of need (it was a genuine question from a devotee, not a gotchya question), one wonders if he sat in church at all. Or if he did, what was he hearing?</p>