The Rise of Christian Fascism in America

Parent Cafe
141

<p>leal - I have Mormon friends too…and would not want to diminish their choices or their faith. My friends are very good people too and I care for them very much. Everyone has basic rights to believe freely what they choose to believe. If I disagree with Mormon beliefs, I hope it is not interpreted as disrespect. When I point out that what Lutherans believe and what Mormons believe is irreconciliable, I am definitely not saying MY way is right and their way is wrong. My way is right for me.</p>

<p>Btw…I have a family member who lived in SLC for a couple of years and the pressure to ‘check out’ the church was there at first. It subsided after a while; but most definitely Mormons support each other in business and in the workplace to the exclusion of others…kind of like the Aggie Network…lol!</p>

142

<p>Personally my idea of ‘h*ll’ is paying $20 to watch Virginia Tech lead UNC by 25 points. I must have somehow (mistakenly of course :wink: ) wandered into the sinners’ section that day.</p>

143

<p>Even discounting indulgences, it’s not fair to say that the Catholic church before the Reformation was without discord, perhaps even chaos at time. The Annuario Pontificio lists something like 30 anti-popes.</p>

144

<p>^Even legitimate Popes in the years leading up to the Reformation had issues…Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia, father of Lucrezia Borgia) comes to mind. Having this guy in charge of ‘tradition’ gives me the shudders.</p>

145

<p>re Christians and politics et al- isn’t there something in the Bible about Caesar’s coin and Christ saying his was the kingdom of Heaven, not… I’d much rather be Christlike than Christian .</p>

146

<p>I’m going to stay out of this thread, but I will enter and leave with this thought.</p>

<p>It is rather clear to me that certain posters are he for nothing more than to ridicule the beliefs of others. It may be that, in the end, it will be found that specific religious beliefs are wrong, who could know; but I cannot see anything positive in this incessant and boyish ridicule. </p>

<p>Certainly there must be more than an intellectual disagreement or a cultural difference that drives so many people here to continually deride the beliefs and lifestyles of others. Why?</p>

<p>Here “religious people” are ridiculed, but I would suppose the same treatment would be given to any particular lifestyle that the “mud-slinger” found unattractive, according to the fashions of the day or the trials and travails of their own dogged life. Are people’s beliefs actually debatable? Is anyone here foolish and childish enough to think so?</p>

<p>The question answers itself.</p>

147

<p>“It may be that, in the end, it will be found that specific religious beliefs are wrong…”
Of this there is no doubt. The major religions of the world have a large number of detailed and specific beliefs which conflict with those of other religions. Maybe there are some religious beliefs which are “right”, but the vast majority of beliefs are in conflict and have to be “wrong.”</p>

<p>“…many people here to continually deride the beliefs and lifestyles of others. Why?” Because the world has a long, long history of very intense conflicts and persecutions motivated by religious beliefs. This behavior did not end with the Inquisition but clearly continues today, whether it comes from conservative, born again Christians, or militant Islamists.</p>

<p>“Are people’s beliefs actually debatable?” Yes. As intelligent beings, it is important that we understand and question our beliefs, motivations and actions and it is clearly impossible to ignore the beliefs of others when they want to make the rest of the world conform to their beliefs.</p>

148

<p>I had a few free minutes to kill (since somehow my body has decided I don’t need sleep) so I did a little digging on our boy fid. I think I may have found two posts that lay out a well hewn philosophy of nearly universal import. Pay strict attention . There may be a quiz.
First for the gals

</p>

<p>and for the guys fid offers this “show stopper”</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>So to recap…</p>

149

<p>I have come to recognize that there are folks who post almost exclusively on “contested” political or religious threads and who can’t be bothered by the “mundanities” of college issues. Leaves me wondering…</p>

150

<p>This thread has become highly amusing. Off-topic, (what was the topic, anyway?) but amusing.</p>

<p>I always knew my son was safe hanging out with his Mormon friends b/c they didn’t drink. Just wasn’t part of their lives.</p>

151

<p>

</p>

<p>That’s true. My son went to several Mormon teen parties and I was absolutely blown away by seeing such a large group of teens actually having fun without any alcohol.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Thanks for the clarification! Well said, and I agree. I certainly don’t agree with all their beliefs either (though some I do find intriguing). I wish more people were like you and could respect another person despite not agreeing. Agreement is not necessary to respect another’s beliefs, but so many are unable to do so.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Again, true. Also like the born-agains who put the fishes on their ads…</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Amen!</p>

152

<p>“I’d much rather be Christlike than Christian”</p>

<p>So would most believing Christians. It’s just that sometimes we fail, and sometimes we don’t try hard enough. Being a Christian means always having to say you’re sorry.</p>

153

<p>

</p>

<p>I think we should definitely consider using those fishes as the new pink triangle. Definitely suspect.</p>

154

<p>Interesting thing I’ve read about that speaks to whether society is becoming more secular or more religious. </p>

<p>There is unequal treatment of veteran’s mental health needs vs. their spiritual needs. Veterans usually have to ask for mental health screening and services, but veterans now cannot get basic health care in our VA hospitals until they complete a spiritual assessment, unless they specifically opt out of it.</p>

<p>Despite what we all know about PTSD and the untreated mental health issues, even suicides, among our soldiers in Iraq, soldiers coming back from the war in most cases must ask for mental health screening or they don’t get it. Not getting services is the default position. <a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16713999/[/url]”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16713999/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>But a veteran trying to get an eye exam at the local VA hospital is automatically given a questionaire asking intrusive questions about how often s/he goes to church, where s/he goes to church, if s/he believes in a higher power, etc. Veterans who score low on the assessment are diagnosed with a “spiritual injury” and referred for religious services. Unlike mental health treatment, getting religious services from the government is the default position. <a href=“http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=17989[/url]”>http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=17989&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Veterans technically can refuse, but since this assessment becomes part of their medical record, their refusal to answer the questions will be noted on their chart. I looked at the questionaire online. The assessment only looks at the veteran’s practices and beliefs to determine if there’s is a “spiritual injury.” It doesn’t ask if the veteran has any complaints about his/her spiritual welfare or if there’s been a change in practice or belief from the baseline. </p>

<p>I think offering spiritual counseling to veterans is great, though given how underfunded and understaffed VA hospitals are for medical, psychiatric and nursing services, it seems that this need could be better met and more cost effectively met through community resources than taxpayer dollars. And the service should be at their request, not something they specifically have to opt out of. </p>

<p>And deciding that an injury has occured should be based on whether the veteran has any complaints about his state or if there’s been a change in that state. It’s just boggling to me that a government employee can officially declare someone damaged because he or she chooses not to practice religion.</p>

<p>And I also don’t agree that how often a person goes to church and where should become a permanent part of someone’s medical record…much less what some government employee thinks about those choices.</p>

<p>The courts have ruled this wasn’t unconstitutional (though it’s on appeal), even though their ruling was a radical shift from precedent. Previously, a government program couldn’t provide religious services as the default position and place the burden on individuals to opt out. All it could do was make the service available, let people know it existed, and leave it up to them to request it.</p>

<p>This is what the Military Times newspapers say our veterans told them during their annual survey in 2006:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>In this atmosphere, about 12% of respondants said they didn’t feel free to practice or express their own religion.</p>

155

<p>Conyat, are you aware that “spiritual distress” is an official nursing diagnosis? And that nurses have a duty to meet the spiritual, religious and cultural needs of their patients? How can they do this without including questions about spirituality or belief system? Just about every question a doc or nurse asks a patient ins intrusive. Does anyone really enjoy discussing bowel regularity or possible sexual dysfuntion with strangers? It’s necesssary for thorough health assessment, though. Spiritual & mental health are important, too.</p>

<p>I recall that a military chaplan was just kicked out of the service (don’t remember which branch) for applying conversion pressure. So I believe there is a process in place to address something as inappropriate as conversion attempts.</p>

156

<p>So you agree that veterans should have to opt out of religious treatment, but only get mental health treatment if they specifically ask for it?</p>

<p>And that veterans who choose not to practice religion should be labelled as damaged?</p>

<p>It’s this unequal treatment, and the official labelling of the non-religious as defective, that I both object to and find a sign that society is more rather than less controlled by religion that previously.</p>

157

<p>

</p>

<p>That’s outrageous!</p>

158

<p>Thanks for pointing that out Leal. StickerShock is ignoring that the type of assessment is very different. I have been to the doctor lots of times, and I have never yet had one ask me how often I have sex as a default question.</p>

<p>I’m sure at some point I’ve been asked if I had complaints about sexual function, and that if I said I was bothered by my situation that would come up. But just to ask it as a default, and then to decide I’m defective if I’m not having sex as often as a government employee thinks I should–no. </p>

<p>The whole basis for exploring sexual dysfunction is on whether the patient has a complaint, not whether a doctor thinks the person should be having more sex.</p>

159

<p>

conyat, nothing in your links says any such thing. If you provide a link to the survey, maybe that will reveal a problem. </p>

<p>This is from the U.S. District Judge’s ruling: “The choice to receive spiritual or pastoral care, the choice to complete a spiritual assessment, and the choice to participate in a religious or spiritually based treatment program always remain the private choice of the veteran,” he wrote. “Accordingly, there is no evidence of governmental indoctrination of religion.”</p>

<p>This seems very appropriate to me.</p>

160

<p>And what are the criteria for diagnosing spiritual distress?</p>