<p>From the NY times op/ed this morning. And this is the man that you conservatives unquestionably back??? AND he’s religious??? I think not…</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/30/opinion/30sat1.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/30/opinion/30sat1.html</a></p>
<p>I feel your outrage, lauras50. Certainly John McCain has a right to talk about rules for prisoner treatment, if anyone does. He knows personally what can happen when there are no strict rules. Why does this administration seem to feel they are not bound by any rules? We can do whatever we want, but we expect other countries to follow the rules (that WE set, of course). It is neither moral not intelligent to follow such a policy.</p>
<p>McCain knows? He’s mentally deranged.</p>
<p>Karl Rove told us so in South Carolina.</p>
<p>Oh, that’s right, mini. How could I forget??? ;-)</p>
<p>Anyone who thinks our treatment of insurgents changes how they would handle a captured American is a FOOL. They will KILL them in as most an inhumane way as possible.</p>
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<p>That’s actually not true. Beheading is more humane then, say, dehydration. But that’s beside the point.</p>
<p>No bad treatment on our enemies’ part gives us an excuse for treating them badly. Stooping to their level only drags us down to their level; our detainees, whatever their status, should be treated with decency, but not frivolity.</p>
<p>But if the prisoners show themselves to be unworthy, for lack of a better word, of such decency, can it be rescinded? To a point. Torture is unequivocally unacceptable. Yet people who have tried to kill soldiers and civilians, and who would try again if allowed the chance, should not be playing volleyball at the States’ expense! Where is the happy medium, and how can we find it?</p>
<p>“Yet people who have tried to kill soldiers and civilians, and who would try again if allowed the chance, should not be playing volleyball at the States’ expense! Where is the happy medium, and how can we find it?”</p>
<p>One of my favorite law enforcement officers is Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County (Phoenix area) in Arizona. Since I do not live in Arizona anymore, I am not sure if he is still in office, but his policies were either loved or hated by constituents, with almost no middle ground. He was reelected a number of times, so those in favor were more numerous.</p>
<p>Sheriff Arpaio is famous for his treatment of prisoners so that they would not want to go back to jail again. For example, in the early 1990’s his position was that if tents are good enough for our soldiers in Kuwait/Iraq, then tents are darn sure good enough for prisoners in Arizona. At one of his prisons, some male prisoners once complained because the laundry had inadvertently mixed the whites with some red clothing such that all underwear were dyed pink. Sheriff Arpaio instantly changed policy so that from that time forward ALL underwear for the male prisoners would be dyed pink. He also allowed prisoners to earn shorter sentences by being part of chain gangs and working in the hot sun, cleaning up the highways. Some people were upset, not because prisoners could shorten their sentences (this is done everywhere for good behavior) but because they were allowed to be parts of chain gangs, because that is embarassing and had been eliminated from most other jurisdictions in the country. Sheriff Arpaio also found out that some prisoners were able to escape and then mingle into society by turning their jail clothing inside out to look normal. He immediately instituted a policy of having the prisoners wear clothing that had the traditional black/wite stripes on the inside and outside of the outfit. I don’t remember all of the other things he did, but when treating PRISONERS, we in the US tpically treat them too cushy! Do you remember back when the winter olympics were in Lake Placid, New York. In order to save money, Lake Placid housed athletes in newly-built housing that would become prison cells. However, the athletes were more closely-packed into the rooms (cells) than would be the prisoners when the facility opened as a jail.</p>
<p>People who are in jail should not expect to treated like they are in country clubs. Furthermore, civilians who act like soldiers but are not wearing uniforms of a country’s army would have been lined up and shot during World War II, with few complaints from Americans. A few rogue guards will always overstep the lines of appropriate behavior (just as some members of PETA will occasionally inappropriately kill some animals). Such individuals will have to dealt with on a case-by-case basis. The US is still the most generous and best country in the world, and it shows up in how we treat prisoners and how we treat those who completely disagree with what the government is doing.</p>
<p>Ah, this is the real question (about prisoners in this country) are they there to be rehabilitated or just punished. It’s like a child in a home. Do you yell and spank so they do not do a “bad” thing again, or do you work with them, and teach them why the other behavior is more appropriate. They, too learn to yell and hit others. Many of our prisoners need mental care and medicines that they should take, but often don’t. How can you say I will torture you so you don’t torture others? They will just learn from our abuse and feel so angry they will go out ready for retribution. Is that really the right answer? What is the point?? If we’re soooo good, we should hold a higher standard for our behavior. May others learn from that, not that we’re hypocrites.</p>
<p>I will never agree that anyone should mistreat someone in my name…and I pay taxes and the administrations salaries AND I AM NOT RELGIOUS, but I seem to have higher moral standards than anyone in the current admin…who are all supposedly religious. Jesus is turing over in heaven for what people are doing in his name.</p>
<p>I never liked any conservatives…</p>
<p>“The US is still the most generous and best country in the world, and it shows up in how we treat prisoners and how we treat those who completely disagree with what the government is doing.”</p>
<p>If I were trying to flagwave for the US, I certainly wouldn’t adduce ethical treatment of prisoners as evidence of my humanity. You’re suggesting torturing people proves how great you are?</p>
<p>and you say terrorism is wrong…</p>
<p>“If I were trying to flagwave for the US, I certainly wouldn’t adduce ethical treatment of prisoners as evidence of my humanity. You’re suggesting torturing people proves how great you are?”</p>
<p>Gee, I am shocked! Based on your other posts, it would be a cold day in hell when you would ever “flagwave for the US”, so obviously you would not adduce ANYTHING as sufficient evidence as to how great the US is.</p>
<p>Furthermore, if you actually read my post, of the treatment of prisoners I mentioned that was acceptable, which one(s) would YOU consider “torturing people”? (1) making the male prisoners wear pink underwear? (2) placing prisoners in tents? or (3) allowing them to shorten their sentences by working?</p>
<p>Perhaps you should move to some more excellent country that is much more productive, fair, moral, and generous than the US, with religous liberty for all. Try Saudi Arabia or Iran or another excellent Muslim country.</p>
<p>I would rather go to France, but hey Iran isnt too bad …</p>
<p>And yes, Muslim countries are better than America.</p>
<p>Yes, Muslim countries are better than America. Muslim countries offer equal rights, the benefits of democracy, freedom, absolutely no persecution, and, well Muslim countries are just so great in so many ways. Honestly man, you’re hilarious.</p>
<p>I don’t actually live in the US, I live in the UK, which does have “religous” liberty for all and crucially, manages to do so without torturing people.
The bit I was commenting on was this:
“Furthermore, civilians who act like soldiers but are not wearing uniforms of a country’s army would have been lined up and shot during World War II, with few complaints from Americans. A few rogue guards will always overstep the lines of appropriate behavior (just as some members of PETA will occasionally inappropriately kill some animals).”</p>
<p>I understood that section to be tacit support of Guantanamo Bay - was I wrong? If so, I withdraw my comments.</p>