Said no one who has ever lost to both Rafa and Nole.
Of course they are not going to say it.
I don’t know why their fans get their panties all in a twist when someone calls them pushers. It’s obviously working/worked for them.
Bjorn Borg was a pusher, ffs.
^^^ I think you understand that the term “pusher” is derogatory and yet you pretend that it isn’t. Your language is a backhanded attempt to elevate Roger Federer by minimizing the playing styles of other greats. That kind of obfuscatory “Fed-speak” has been going on for years by RF fans intent on establishing him as some kind of demigod.
Is this really the hill you want to die on emilybee? If so, then you’ll need to admit that “put the ball in the court and run” is the mark of a “pusher.” One who I think played a brilliant match, but count the number of defensive lobs, so by your definition…
Ummm…yes, it is the mark of a pusher. Yes, she played a brilliant match. So? She was smart. She wasn’t going to win playing S&V against Serena or trying to match her power and hit winners. Ashe won Wimby playing not his usual game brilliantly. Smart players have more than one plan and can execute it if need be.
I don’t get why fans of players who are pushers get their panties in a twist over it. Pushers can be quite successful, win majors, other big tourneys and get to number 1. Sunshine was number 1 for about 2 years and I am a fan of hers and she is a pusher. I don’t love her game but I like her regardless.
As for me trying to elevate Rogerr among the greats - he doesn’t need me or anyone to do that. His record speaks for itself.
emily, first of all, the term “pusher” has derogatory undertones. I much prefer the term defensive baseliner. And I agree that some of the best tennis players were defensive baseliners, although none of them dominated. Like you, I do not like defensive baseliners, nor do I particularly enjoy serve and volleyer.
I have always gravitated to aggressive/offensive baselines or all-court players. It is no wonder that Lendl (offensive baseliner), Agassi (offensive baseliner) and Djokovic (all court player) are my favourite players.
For some reason, I do not enjoy Federer’s (all court) and Nadal’s (mix of offensive and defensive baseliner) games, nor was I particularly fond of Connors’ (all court).
Conversely, it is strange that I enjoyed Borg’s game, even though he, as you aptly pointed out, was predominantly a defensive baseliner, although he too could be described as an all court player, quite possibly the first of his kind. I noticed that in the past, you stated that you liked Hewitt, which I find odd considering the fact that he clearly a defensive baseliner. Then again, since I liked Borg, perhaps exceptions can be made! 
Perhaps it is important to define the different types of players. Defensive baseliners simply returns the ball and waits for the other player to make an unforced error. Those players seldom dominate the tennis landscape. Offensive baseliners are players who control the tempo of the game from the baseline thanks to overpowering groundstrokes. We all know that serve and volleyers do. All court players mix elements of all three styles. Below is how I would categorize some of the best players of the open era:
Defensive baseliners
Michael Chang
Lleyton Hewitt
Bad Gilbert
Offensive baseliners
Andre Agassi
Juan Martin Del Potro
Ivan Lendl
Andy Murray
Andy Roddick
Stan Wawrinka
Serve and Volleyers
Boris Becker
Stefan Edberg
Goran Ivanisevic
John McEnroe
Pete Sampras
All Court players
Bjorn Borg
Jimmy Connors
Novak Djokovic
Roger Federer
Mats Wilander
By the way emily, regardless of your dislike for Djokovic, I hope you are at least enjoying the very special rivalry between him and Federer. It is arguably the greatest rivalry of all time. Federer is arguably the greatest tennis player of all time, and Djokovic will likely be counted among them later in his career. To have two such players playing in the same era, and with such frequency, is very special indeed…and is virtually unprecedented. To make it even more appealing, their styles of play seems to mesh well.
You can define them anyway you chose. To me they are pushers. But so as to not hurt anyone’s feelings I will call them grinders instead.
I only liked Hewitt because Pat liked him. Also, he is/was a good fighter, which I admired. But he never should have won Wimby and the only reason he and other grinders have since then is because they slowed down the grass so much.
Mats was definitely a pusher in his day. It’s only now when you compare him to today’s pushers err I mean grinders, like Nole, Rafa and Andy does he seem like an all court player.
You are certainly entitled to your own opinion on this matter as I am to mine.
You are not hurting my feelings emily, you just sound foolish, and a tad bit biased. Nobody who knows anything about tennis would refer to Djokovic as a “pusher”, or a defensive baseliner.
And by the way, Wimbledon’s slower surface (and balls) has been in effect since 2002, so it is not a recent development. Wimbledon still favours players who prefer speedy surfaces.
Yes, since 2002, which is the year LL won it.
I really don’t care if you think I sound foolish.
As others have suggested, so what if you think he’s a pusher? The thing all of us long time players know about pushers is that we hate them because they beat us.
Djokovic has the mindset of a pusher, or a grinder if you prefer, but the firepower to separate him from playing solely that game style. His serve is certainly an effective weapon that opens the court for him and produces many cheap points. Typically one doesn’t usually think of true pushers as big servers. Though his volley is still a bit of a weakness, he is certainly more comfortable at net than he used to be.
I’m a big Fed fan, but I am a huge admirer of Nole’s game. His balance is extraordinary, which allows him to hit aggressively off of tremendously difficult balls. This was evident on some of his passes against Fed, but particularly in his ability to produce terrific topspin lobs off of Roger’s SABR plays. I think this may have been the key to the match. It broke Fed down both physically and mentally as it pushed him off the net. This ability to adjust is another element that takes him out of the grinder group. One does not have to come into net to take control of the point.
I think the slower courts today, and equipment changes, favor the aggressive baseliner/all courter and Djokovic’s game is built to take advantage of those changes.
I am not so vain as to think you care about my opinion, which is admittedly biased. I am just glad to be witness to one of the greatest era in men’s tennis. But you do post on this forum extensively. I consider you the de facto moderator of the tennis forum, and deservingly so. As such, there are others whose good opinion you may care more about.
^ eh? Everyone has their own opinions on players and are entitled to such.
Please do not consider me the de facto moderator of this thread. I love tennis as both a long time player and a long time follower of the pros and enjoy talking about tennis with others who also like it. Nothing more.
So, Bouchard is suing the USTA for her late-night locker room fall that ended her tournament. Can’t say it is a surprise. What say you all?
IMO, has every right to sue. Whether she can prove negligence is another story. We haven’t heard the USTA side and probably won’t unless it goes to court. Will be interesting to see if case gets settled out of court.
I do question her flying to China only a few weeks after suffering the concussion and also that she tried to play in Wuhan but didn’t feel right after practicing and pulled out but then went to Beijing anyway and had to retire mid match because she felt dizzy. I don’t know how her doctors could have given her the OK to go to China.
Has anyone else been watching the Asian swing? The women have been their usual hot mess but the men pretty much keeping to form ( though Roger’s loss the other day to a qualifier was mind boggling.) Rafa is playing better but was still dreadful against Djoker in Beijing final.
I haven’t been watching much of the Asian swing, but I did catch the article about Bouchard. I never saw a fill story of exactly how she fell (just that she fell in the locker room after her match). But I think it is exaggerating a bit that her ranking has fallen since the fall, since except for the US Open itself, she had been having horrible results.
^ very true. She had a horrible year up to USO and her ranking was in free fall, but it has fallen since the USO because she made the final in Wuhan and couldn’t defend those points. So probably fell another 10 spots or so from where she was at USO.
This is what she said happened: http://www.thestar.com/sports/tennis/2015/09/06/eugenie-bouchards-concussion-leaves-many-questions-unanswered-dimanno.html
I just check her ranking and she is now #39, plus she will lose another 209 points from Singapore last year. She was #25 going into the USO. Iirc, she defended all her USO points by getting to the 4th rd.
It was a bad fall, serious concussion. I don’t really understand why she was in there in the dark. Door should have been locked if the locker room was ‘closed.’ This seems like very basic stuff, surely USTA would have guarded against an elite athlete getting hurt in this way - but clearly not well enough.
Yes watching the Asian swing! Happy to see Rafa playing well this week.Love that most everything is on ESPN3 these days.
Almost forgot about Kyrgios - young man in serious need of some adult guidance rather than enabling. Scary and sad to watch this type of car wreck IMO.
His behavior continues to be appalling. ATP needs to suspend him already, not that he will care.